It doesn't drive like my daily (duh) and I don't expect it to but I would like to have it a little bit tighter with less wandering?/play?/sloppiness? than I currently feel. Traditional '30-'31 Hi-boy coupe build with flathead like in the Tardel/Bishop book. I built this car and it's awesome. Runs out great and I love it but would like it to not be so sloppy on the road. It's the first Model A I've ever driven so I have no knowledge base for comparison. Good front spring/shackles/bushings/perch pins. It has an F1 box that I rebuilt properly. It has Model A spindles and steering arms that were reworked by Okie Joe when he dropped my axle. New king pins and bushings. Original style drag link ends and tie rod ends that have been rebuilt with new internals. It has a panhard bar in front. I changed out the Coker bias ply big and littles for Diamondback Auburn bias-look radials and it made a big difference but I want more. There is absolutely no visible play in the steering system when moving the steering wheel left to right back and forth with the car on the ground. Serious question is how tight does one screw in the plugs on these tie rod ends? Could my play be coming from there or is a wandering Model A hot rod steering the way it always was and the way it's just going to be? I've never driven another Model A Hot Rod to see if anybody else's ride is the same or similar so I have no comparison to judge it on. Andy
You say that your spindles were reworked but does that mean the "balls" were replaced. If the balls are egg shaped that will effect your steering. Are the tie rod end internals installed correctly, I have been involved with Model A's since 1968 and have found the springs, "mushrooms" and cups installed incorrectly more than once. Did you replace the shackles and perch and spring bushings? Has the front crossmember been modified, effecting the caster? Toe in should be 1/16". As far as how tight to make the plugs, this is what the Model A Service Bulletins say, "The spring should be compressed 25% to maintain the correct tension". "Measure the length of the spring". "At the point the end plug makes contact with the inside parts, continue to tighten one forth the length of the spring and align the slot for the cotter pin". Never use those ridiculous Teflon ball seats, they will last about six months before they loose their shape.
Lots of little details to Model A steering. 2 tooth or 7 tooth box is the starting point. A little wear in the parts can add up to big problems. Paul Shinn is Tech Director of MAFCA. His videos cover a lot of Model A maintenance issues.
All components replaced when built. Model A steering arms reworked to accept aftermarket balls and heat bent to compensate for the drop of the axle. Balls are not egg shaped. Tie rod ends properly rebuilt. Where did you get 1/16" toe in? Everything I've seen says 1/8". Andy
I was in the same boat with my 1931 A roadster with a flathead v8. When I built it I had installed a 1950 F1 steering box which had been rebuilt, all new front end components, axle, king pins, spring, shocks, tie rods, and so on. I never liked the squirrely way it seemed to bump steer and after changing wheels, tires, playing with air pressure, castor, camber, and all that I ended up taking the F1 box out and putting in a Borgeson Vega box, a new steering column, and went to a complete cross steer setup. I can now drive the car and have confidence it will go where I point it and not some other direction. Cross steer must be OK as it was what Ford went to eventually.
Curve ball coming in, what's your tire pressure? That's a little car, anything over 32 is gonna seriously muller up the contact patch where the rubber meets the road. Makes em twitchy, following tar strips, lots of correcting. I see you added Auburn radials, and likely they have a max of 36psi. For a 50s car that's probably ok but a Model A is a peanut. I'd start at 30 and be ready to go a bit lower. Just playing that card.
A 53-56 box has the same type of operation as an F-1 box. No benefit I can see. Try a 1/16” toe in. Can’t hurt. Your caster seems right on. Maybe give your tie rod ends a quarter turn tighter on the adjusters.
Is it an F1 or F100 box? Randy is the guru on the F100 box. My car has one and zero problems. As for a F1 box in a Model A, they are not really the right one to use. The steering shaft on a F1 box comes out on the lower portion of the the top of the box where as a F100 steering shaft comes out at the upper part of the top of the box. If you plan to use the same mounting holes in the frame, then a F1 box will have the wrong pitch and will put the steering wheel into the windshield.
^^^ Not PLANNING on using an F1 box. I AM using an F1 box and the wheel is in perfect position regarding the dash. Not up against the windshield at all. Opened up the hole in the frame to accommodate the sector shaft and used ONE of the original "A" mounting bolt locations and drilled two others. Welded a mounting flange onto the F1 box snout after trimming it down and chucking it in the lathe to fit the new flange. Set up perfectly. Took a LOOOONG time to do that, especially considering it's position with the '35 Ford dash I grafted onto the original "A" dash rail. Lots of thought, many beers, cigars and pondering going "vroom, vroom" in the garage. . Andy
Do you have the original A tie rod? Some (all?) of them are a thin wall tube with plugs in the ends where they are threaded. I have not seen it happen, but it always seemed like a great place for flex to happen. I have two projects in my garage that will have A type rod ends, and both of them will get new heavier wall rods.
The wishbone ball joint in a model A is already behind the pitman arm. Making it longer may increase bump and roll steer. Worth jacking up each front wheel to see if it tries to steer the wheels.
Original "A" tie rods are realy not thin wall at all with those plugs...pretty heavy actually, but mine are solid. Well...a '32 wishbone is longer than an "A" so... I lengthened it because of two reasons. I needed to get the length and wasn't willing to shell out the coin for an original '32 wishbone AND the yoke on the "A" wishbone was shaped better than a '32 which allowed it to clear the flatty oil pan with minimal trimming. Andy
Lots of pointed discussion with many good guesses Without pictures this discussion could go on endlessly
I think we’ve covered every single thing that I could think of. Unless you have wide offset wheels, which I doubt is the case. It’s got to be something worn or loose. I have a stock type front suspension in my 32, except for the F-1 box, tube shocks, and later tie rod ends. Everything else sounds the same as yours, but mine drives great.
@theHIGHLANDER hit on tire contact and tire pressure. My Victoria followed every groove and depression in the road surface....even got squirrly on solid painted stripes....all the front end components tight and even new king pins installed. 6.00 x 16 front tires, wear pattern on them was on the outside of both tires, curb and passenger. Just a little bit of tire contact with what is available in the cross section of the tire I am running. Finally found an old school alignment shop that can, and would, bend an I beam axle on the car. They cussed me as as you bend the axle, it changes the last bend, but they fiddle farted with it until there is 1/8" difference between the top and bottom of the the tire, or very little caster .....the car drives so much better. On an other note, and not mentioned yet, is wheel bearing preload. Any axial movement in the bearings will equate to roadwalk. I run the nut up tight....until the wheel starts to bind, and back the nut off until you just feel it loosen. Then tighten the nut until you feel it just start to tighten, trying to achieve zero preload or just a slight positive preload. Oh.... the slot in the castle nut isn't aligned to accept the cotter key...I file the nut flat until it aligns to accept the cotter key. It it trial and error, removing a little material at a time sneaking up on the correct nut dimension. It is a lot of fiddling but once you have it, you are done. I monitor the hub temperature, just by feel, until I achieve confidence in the set up. The link kind of describes the same process but doesn't include the massaging of the retaining nut to achieve the zero or slight preload required, in my experience, to eliminate the roadwalk using tires with a larger cross section than the stock bicycle tires. https://www.machinedesign.com/motor...etting-techniques-for-tapered-roller-bearings hoping you find your cause of your troubles...as you should be able to drive with confidence... good luck
So now we have another curve ball thrown into the issue with a cut and lengthened Model A wishbone. Too many modifications by "Okie Joe" and yourself to get a clear picture of your car's issue. You need to get a clear picture of your car's axle camber, caster, toe in or out, tire pressure, wheelbase, etc. You have a dozen guy's trying to help but are all basically grasping at straws. Like post 22, how about a few pictures.
If the frame is not boxed then you will get a little bit of deflection in the area where the steering gear bolts up. The A frames are pretty wiggly in that area. Your tire pressure sounds high but I have not ever had radials on my cars. It sounds like everything is up to snuff as well is it can be. Old cars will drive like old cars, that's part of the charm.
Yeah, no. I truly believe anything can be made right, pleasing and safe. I've restored so many cars over the years and there was nothing to be concerned about. Any car should track straight, stop confidently, shift smooth, etc. No excuses and certainly no acceptance. Do they drive like a 2025 SUV? Fuck no, and THAT should be the charm. Maybe it takes a full turn of the wheel, maybe you brake sooner, maybe it doesn't wind up like an import straining for 2nd gear. Nothing personal, I've fixed a lot of stuff that was fueled by myth and urban legend, or the "...old cars just drive like...". Yeah, no again. Hot rod Ford stuff isn't rocket science. You'll find it and be happier than ever.
<<< This car has 150K miles on it. 4" heavy CE dropped axle, buggy spring, Speedway 27" hair pins, Vega box, '40 spindles, late tie-rod ends, pan-hard bar, 14" radials, 28# pressure, 0* toe in, 8* caster, 1*+ camber. Drives like a dream with two fingers @ 70 (unless there's a cross wind). Edit: I have a VW steering damper on it too. IT'S NOT A BAND-AID!
Do you have an adjustable draglink? Your steering box needs to be centered, which usually requires an adjustable draglink. If not, there will be noticeable play in the steering What front shocks are you running? I've found that quality shocks do make a difference in the way these old Fords handle.
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