That's ridiculous. They may come and ask to re-***ign VINS but will have no legal means by which to just confi****e vehicles when there is no evidence of a crime by anyone. The reason for the error is decades of loose laws and poor record keeping. Those are not crimes, therefore no vehicle confi****ed. Someone comes knocking on my door demanding to see the VINS on my Model A, they are not going to be welcome or happy. There is still illegal search and seizure protection in our cons***ution, although many states like the Peoples Republic of California tend to think otherwise.
What's the best way to handle a complete car from out of state. Bill of sale only, no ***le? Most likely no regitered anywhere in the last 20 years.
So all you guys who own model As and Bs are holding worthless cars, unless you want to pull the body in front of the man to verify the vin. Who wants to buy your car and go through that h***le. None of you will ever be able to sell your cars!!!!!! Ha Ha Ha Ha. The "system" has ****ed you all again.
In California if properly handled over the years your ***le should be either the engine number (if the car has not been transferred in many years) or the VIN tag installed by the DMV/Highway Patrol in the door jam (and a couple of other places on the frame. If neither of these cases are true then someone took a "short cut" and now it is time to pay. Charlie Stephens
I would think that evidence of a crime would be you when registered the car and the VIN you gave the DMV had been reported stolen in the past. If there was a good story you could probably keep your car otherwise it would be returned to the rightful owner it was stolen from. If you had a car registered with a VIN that had been stolen (maybe in another state) I think that would be reason for a judge to issue a search warrant which could lead to the car being confi****ed. Charlie Stephens
Here is my experience. Bought a nice 31 coupe which had a clear Californa ***le. Had it inspected and ***led in Nevada. Sold the car to a buyer in Norway. The officials there thought the year of the engine was incorrect and had the owner pull up the body. The numbers did not match as the car had evidently been ***led with the visible engine number on a replacement engine. The car had been legal in California and Nevada for well over 25 years. I never pulled it apart as I bought it as a complete runner. They would not give him a ***le and I had an unhappy buyer. He ended up parting it out. Too bad as it was a nice car with a hopped up banger and overdrive. I will never make that mistake again. It may be nice to live in a state where they are lax about numbers and ***les, but times change and what may have been acceptable will change.
A little talking might have solved the problem especially if there was paperwork on file at the DMV. To the best of my knowledge the practice used to be when you changed an engine you went to the DMV and had the number from the new engine transferred to the registration for the car, thus what you had was correct and legal in California. Charlie Stephens
In Colorado, you can pay for a CHP officer or DMV inspector to verify the VIN on a Model A frame during construction or restoration in your garage or shop. The verification form is good as gold when you go to register the car.
Charlie. From what I understand the dmv in his country would not budge on the issue in spite of the fact he had copies of ***les from two previous owners. Engine and frame number did not match - no deal. I probably could have done what you suggest locally, if I had known the problem, and obtained an ***igned number. Different countries, like different states, have thier own rules. In addition before VIN numbers a lot of vehicles were ***led with engine numbers in some states. So my advice still is; make sure, especially on Fords, the car is registered with the frame, not engine, number. Other makes like MoPars have a tag, no frame number, a lot of Pre-war Chevys have a firewall tag, no frame number. If it is built from parts or what not, get an ***igned number from dmv. The days of faked numbers blew up when Boyd Coddington got busted. I realize for many here this all seems like something they do not have a problem where they live. They are lucky.
If your VIN or serial number happens to be used on a different car, and a record of that is shared with the state were that other car is, your state can require that you come in for a VIN inspection (as will the other car), the penalty of ignoring is the cancellation of registration, and the revocation of ***le. If you are unable to prove that you have obtained your vehicle via lawful means, you could lose the car (as could the other owner). If your VIN or serial number happens to be used on a different car, and a record of that is shared with the state were that other car is, and that number goes back to a stolen vehicle, then your vehicle will be considered stolen, until proven otherwise, if you can manage to do that. You can call it ridiculous all you want, but this is the same in all 50-states, including Texas. These laws have been in-place longer than I have been alive. No two Model A's, or any other vehicles of the same make and model would have ever had the same serial number. If the same serial number is in-use on more than one car, that transcends bad record keeping, straight into a violation of the law. Whether that was the fault of the registering municipality, the state, a lazy mechanic, or nefarious actions, the end result is the same, and it's not the way you want things to be. If your number is called into question, YOU get to prove your case, even in Texas. All involved parties will be considered suspect. Beyond the local constabulary concerns, if you are in an accident, and adjuster, investigator, accident re-constructor, or forensic spe******t, etc. discovers that you have no number, or an incorrect number, they have the right to void your policy on-the-spot. This is also the case in all 50-states, including Texas.
It is not a problem, until it's a problem. When it becomes a problem, it is a BIG PROBLEM! Boyd made it through it okay because he was a very rich man. If you are a very rich man, go ahead and roll those dice. If you aren't a very rich man, well....
My 29 is on an after market frame. I have the original frame that has been vin verified with that number on a firewall tag. The frame stays in the garage and will go with the car if it gets sold. Super easy here in Georgia as it's a no ***le state.
Is there database, in California or nationwide, that has the complete list of stolen VINs or engine numbers? Is that what the CHP or DMV uses, or is it available to others? If one had several engines and frames without ***les and wanted to make sure they were not stolen before using, would they have to take them all in to run the numbers?
You can call the DMV and ask them if there are any active records on the numbers, or if they have been reported stolen. They will not provide you with specific information about records, but can tell you if any exist. Call the 1-800 number. You will likely have to get a "call-back" when a representative is available.
What about in a non ***le state situation such as this dealer claims? " ***le vs. non-***le vehicles Late-model automobiles in all 50 states are required to be ***led — but there are at least eight states that do not issue ***les on antique cars and trucks. For example, in Connecticut ***les are optional for any vehicle older than 1981. In New York State, you can’t get a ***le, period, for anything pre-1973. In Georgia, ***les are optional for model years 1963-1985 — but completely unobtainable for any vehicle older than 1963. In addition to CT, NY and GA, there are at least five other states that do not issue ***les on vehicles over a certain age: Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Maine and Alabama. If you are buying a cl***ic car out of one of these states, chances are it won’t have a ***le — these are referred to as “bill of sale only” or “tag receipt” or “non-***le” cars. Ownership is legally transferred with a bill of sale and signed tag/registration receipt. If you are purchasing a non-***le car, please be sure of the following: The registration on the car must be current (and it must be in a state where the vehicle is ineligible for a ***le due to its age — see above list) The VIN on the car must match the VIN on the registration Obtain a notarized bill of sale from the owner listed on the current tag receipt or registration card With these do***ents, you will have no trouble obtaining a ***le in your name if you live in one of the 42 states that will issue a ***le on cars of any age. And you’ll also need these do***ents to register the car if you live in one if the eight non-***le states."
Read this section again. You can get a car registered without a ***le, but you MUST follow the rules. When I brought one of my motorcycles from Connecticut to California, I had to do exactly this. It was not hard, because I was prepared, and all of my paperwork, and a numbers-matching bike.
In my earlier post on this thread I was being sarcastic, but in all seriousness it sounds to me like if you live in California you better only buy a Model A or B that is already ***led in california. Otherwise be prepared to pull the body in front of the man to verify frame vin and risk forfeiture of the car if it differs from the ***le. For example, I live in NJ and have a 31A hot rod with a flathead 8. No vin on the block, obviously not the original motor that came in the car, and the car is full fendered and finished. If a person in California were to buy my car what would he have to do to ***le it in California? Pull the body to reveal the vin and risk forfeiture? I bought the car out of NY State, already finished. It had a current NY registration (In NY your registration is your ***le with old cars). I ***led it in NJ and dmv didn't blink an eye or ask to see the car. Easy as pie.
A few have suggested it but nobody has actually pointed out that Canadian and UK Model As very often have no numbers on the frame. Most Model As in South Africa were built in Canada, and as a general rule they don't have frame numbers unless they were stamped later by the local licencing authorities. Also, the Model A frame number cannot really be called a VIN, as it predates that piece of regulatory chicanery. It is at most a serial number; at least a left frame rail serial number.
Guess I am lucky. Pennsylvania took my Ohio ***led Model A, vacated the ***le then issued me a new PA ***le AND a new PA VIN tag. My VIN and ***le numbers match. No idea why they did that, but it's OK by me.
To the OP. As Gimpy stated, I think you're best bet would be to go through the SB100 process. If you have all your do***ents, everything required by the DMV and do your research beforehand, it should go fairly smooth. Your car will be entered into the DMV system and it'll be smog exempt. There are only 500 spots so get to DMV when they open in the morning the first business day of the new year. That's about a month and a half from now! The SB100 process
Its best to use an experienced independent DMV service. Once the DMV finds out a bit of evidence they don't like it's too late. A good service can navigate the rules to get you in. Well worth the $.
"The Man" can be an independent private vehicle verifer. There are several around in California, who specialize in old cars.
VIN vehicle identification number. Self explanatory. Identifies the vehicle. Whether it is 2018 or 1918, the term is accurate so let's not get too caught up in semantics.
Since numbers aren't tied to the body there's no reason you can't use said body, the pink slip with it just is useless.
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