Projects Modified Lakester Build (THUNDERCASKET)

UPDATE! As I mentioned over in my old engine thread (MY FIRST FLATHEAD... NOW WHAT?) after a partially successful yet gone otherwise horribly wrong cleaning of the engine, (I ended up pressure washing the block and made A MESS of my driveway), I took the engine and rotating assembly up to Powerplay Engine and Machine up in Wilmington, MA for a shake n bake, magnaflux and then to address the snapped head stud, cylinder hone/bore, rotating assembly work, balance job, etc.



This all has me re-thinking the 8CM cam and wondering if I should just put something much more aggressive in there since everything is apart and I am throwing money at it anyway. I'd like something that can be driven on the street but doesn't have to be super comfortable as long as I can get my little 1500lb car down a 1/8 mile competitively. Any suggestions?

And I took a look at my EAB heads too. I'm not really sure where to measure for valve clearance on them. I found an old post by the late great Brice Lancaster that advised to just run the heads and cam you want and cut them for valve clearance and another old post from @286merc saying he'd used a few .365 Schneiders. I have, up to this point, been looking for cams that come in at .338 (8CM) or less but that rules out some of the more aggressive cams I'm interested in looking at like the Max-1, 400jr, Thumprs, All but a couple Schneiders...

 

Measure for valve to head clearance over the valves. Not being funny. There are no piston to valve issues. Make sure that you have enough clearance twixt the valves n head pockets, + around the perimeter of the valve edge. Unlike ohv mills, flathead intake flow goes around n over the valve head. IIRC, in an article in 1001 Rod & Custom Ideas, Ed Winfield described the method of using the "valve curtain area(block seat to valve face @ full lift)" to define the area over the valve needed for proper breathing. It does affect comp ratio. There are a couple of decent books out there that describe some decent theories & past/current practices.
Marcus...

 

I would go for just enough of a bore to clean up the cylinders, turn the crank, resize the rods, level the block and heads. Then mild performance cam like you said you are only moving a 1500 pound car.

 

One thing to consider. I was going to use EAB heads, but when I test fit them, the new domed pistons that I was using hit them. Using flat top pistons would cure the problem, or have the head machined.
Just another thing you may run into while putting it all together.

 

I got pretty wildly varied measurements in the valve pockets so I am not sure what is going on with these heads. I also found that the dome reliefs are not consistent in size so I am now wondering if these were done wrong by the shop who sold them off on Ebay to me years ago.

This does not seem right to me unless I am missing something:

I went with an Isky Max-1, Zephyr springs, and some Johnson hollow adjustable lifters. You nailed the plan otherwise.

Were you using Egge pistons? I have read that is a common issue with EAB heads and Egge. I was looking at Offy pistons or possibly re-using the stock pistons I have since they are in good shape. I'll have to cross that bridge when I come to it though.

 

Yep, Egge.

 

I am running Egge pistons in the race engine (261 Chev.) if I was turning 10,000 of 20 laps every Saturday night or going for a land speed record light wight forged would be in order, but for street use or a few times a year low R.P.M. racing I don't see the need.


Bill Roese won a lot of races in this car, 312 Y-Block with cast pistons, running against 327 Chevys with forged pistons!
My father crewed on this car

 

While the engine is still off at the spa and new parts are trickling in, I am tuning the body up and trying to figure the hood out (more on that later).

With the engine out, I am now able to brace the frame up a little better. The weight of the engine and the tall mounts act to twist the frame rails quite a bit, so I have been intending to use this piece of Model T running board brace as a cradle type crossmember under the front of the oil pan behind the water pumps. I like the look; I just hope it holds up.

 

i though Powerplay sounded familiar! did ya happen to see a slightly warmed over 460 big block ford kicking around there for the '58 Edsel wagon im working on?? I havent heard much about it lately, i think the guy who owns the edsel still owes some money on the engine work but theyve been keeping in touch about it.

Where are the big pictures of the hood stuff you were doing this weekend, it was hard to see on ig on my phone

 

Naw man, I only saw the other 8BA block he had in there. There were so many things to look at that the rest kinda blended together!

I am still composing the rest of the pictures but I just got some BAD NEWS about my EAB heads that I spent like $300 on years ago that had been "machined": according to the gurus on Fordbarn, these have indeed been milled at an angle and the piston reliefs are ALL wrong, indicating these were just cleaned and milled with no attention to the valve or piston relief. So they might as well be blanks now for the amount of work they will need to make them back into actual EAB spec heads. That or wallhangers. I'm pretty upset about this and feeling pretty dumb about buying them so trustingly all those years ago.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=286865

 

WHAT AM I DOING!?!?!


Let me backtrack from that shot a little. I've been dissatisfied with the hood and nose for a while now and with the engine off at the shop and while tending to other things on the body, I couldn't leave it alone. SO I pulled everything off and brought out the old track nose and some tape, which led me to maybe a blister idea.


This was doable but not really the look I wanted.

Back to the metal hood, I cut the halves apart and cut out all the metal that was overworked and really beyond saving with my tools, skillset, and patience which happened to provide a relief for the radiator. I also cut the nose in half to be able to move it around better:



Still unsatisfied, I drew the hood back about 3" and allowed for a gap somewhere between 1.5" and 2" that I would fill. This has the look I think and will soften the nose, which just really looked a little too long and too sharp still even after the wheelbase change. Unless I rebuilt the whole car around a pinched frame with a full pan, the original shape just was not going to work for me.



Around this point, I finally had the sense to re-work and utilize the original structure from the hood. It took a little repair work but now I have something relatively uniform to work off of.



At this point I finally realized that the rib at the bottom of both sides needed to go, not just aesthetically, but structurally. Each side was a mixed bag of dents, missing material, and cracks that worked to push and pull each side anywhere but flat along the bottom edge. So that's all gone now. THe sheet of steel you see here in the picture was just for a visual reference; I don't think I am going to make full sides but I'm going to likely end up making something new there. First thing on the agenda is to get this all uniform and symmetrical around the edges. I'm thinking I may lay it down on a sheet of 18ga and cut a template off the "good" side then transfer that over to the "bad" side, make them same and weld it down then cut whatever is in the way. I haven't fully formed a plan thet though.

 

Sad, but that is always a concern in buying old parts. If you get them for wall hanger prices that is one think but if you a pay premium price it's a pisser.

That is a lot of hood work!

 

Dont sweat the EAB heads. Weve all got wall hangers weve bought. Ive got a set of 8cm heads I bought when I was drunk thinking I was buying EAB heads. Whatever bro. Onward and upward. Looks like youre making good progress keep the updates flowing.

 

Man, 8CM heads, yeah, wrong heads unless you're running some sort of boost!

They LOOK real nice at least but $300 is a lot for wall hangers! LOL! I'm going to consult with the guy who is doing my engine and rotating assembly first before I write these off and see what he thinks.

At least I have that other set that should clean up OK. Worst case I have the 8BA heads that came off this engine as well.

 

PM sent.
Marcus...

 

Can't be afraid to cut things up. Can't be afraid to start over. I've settled on adding about an inch gap at the end of the hood, another degree or so downward angle, and lined up at the cowl (rather than a 2"gap and 3" shorter).

I'm working on a template for a new nose now and I'm happier with it so far. I'm ditching the angled wedge for a mild round & straight drop instead of the jutting chin. I'm also putting another 4" of length on it.

 

You are a better man than I am! I like where you ate going though.

 

Good that you are willing to rethink the nose of your roadster. I think you need to roll it outside so that you can get the nose to work with the rest of the car. Cardboard and tape will help you to try lots of ideas.

 

Thanks! And yes, I've learned the 'wheel it outside and look at it' lesson now for sure. The next few days I will expand and refine the template a bit and then take a look this weekend, ideally.

 

A little change of character...I’m likin that a lot. Your shop’s a “refinery”!

 

I made some wood templates with the idea of making a buck. I'm not super thrilled or confident in the precision or symmetry but I do tend to chase things down obsessively when it comes to that. I need to keep the mantra "close enough is good enough" going through my head. I did some hammer work to get the nose symmetrical ENOUGH.




That wedge strip probably has to go in favor of a piece I will have to make.




I decided the cardboard wasn't entirely sufficient so I started making pieces out of 18ga before I called it a week. Now I am considering the notion that it may be easier and cleaner to just make the nose and then make a new hood to match since the two sides really do need a bit more work to clean up than the pictures show. I have plenty enough steel around to make and scrap a few new nose pieces if I don't just use/fix the end of the hood.



In the past few weeks I also put my old cordless out to pasture in the house in favor of a new Milwaukee setup. This is my first impact driver and I gotta say, I wish I got one of these things sooner. It made super short work of this Greenlee punching.

HAH, maybe more of a Distillery when I'm done being productive!

 

I admire the way you just keep at it. If I keep watching some of it my rub off on me.
My son has a fleet of Milwaukee cordless tools in a holder he built in his shop with a charging station, a very neat setup. I think it is time for me to toss my old and mismatched cord and cordless junk and follow his lead. One brand and one battery type with always a couple of batteries charged sounds nice.
Well since I posted this earlier today I have spent $850 on Milwaukee tools and batteries. 7 tools, a charger and 3 18v 5.0 ah batteries. My youngest son will get my cast offs that work. These should simplify things around shop. Maybe I can make pretty holes too.

 

Wow, It's been 3 weeks? Well I've been continuing to chip away at things. Mostly things that aren't super obvious in pictures but critical to any car build have been on the agenda, namely stiffening the body.

Started by tackling the D pillars to take all the wibbly wobbly out of the ass end of the tub. These half inch carriage bolts I can't remember why I bought came in handy. I ended up cutting and notching the original pieces then simply put them together with sheet metal screws (which are my favorite thing right now, the Milwaukee driver I got makes them a breeze). Got the one side tacked together straight and the door closes flat. Working on the driver side now.



Used these carriage bolts I've had forever which worked great. I'll probably make some rubber washers to close them up and dampen any vibration.







Been running around the body and subframe tacking here and there. I discovered the subframe still has a little flex to it so I've cut a piece of 1x2 box tube to add a third crossmember back there which seems promising. I'll have to cut that seat frame some more to fit but that whole area needs more attention anyway to accommodate the roll bar mounts to the rear crossmember and clean up the back panel.

I also discovered that my nose template wasn't good enough and that the nose of the hood isn't symmetrical. SO I asked for some advice and followed it on making a new steel template that I'm transferring to some new wood buck pieces. I also made some new side pieces to begin a new structure for the whole works. Not sure how much new metal is going to show up here but I may end up with nothing but half of the hood nose and a bunch of new steel everywhere else up here to get it right or at least to 'close enough is good enough.'

 

Lots of work going on there., things too easy to put off.

 

Nuthin like a Hard Body...Go Man!

 

The temptation to just buy a new Track T glass nose from Speedway is strong today though, LOL!

 

NO,NO say it ain't so!

 

If I could find one close enough to the shape I want and the right dimensions I think I might have a hard time saying no for $200 or less {:\

I am kicking myself for passing on all those rear truck fenders and the set of '47 Buick rear fenders (Fred Carrillo’s Roadster is a major influence) or the like I could have bought over the years.

TOmorrow I am planning to cut some more buck pieces regardless, with plans to make the nose on a flat table and then fit it to the car and make it right (assuming I can) instead of trying to build off the car so much (which has been part of the problem all along, really).

 

I've been picking away at the car still over the past couple weeks. Worked on fixing the bottom of the back of the tub. Loving my new Milwaukee driver for making holes in angle iron and sheet metal screwing that to the piece I made here. The M12 die grinders are BAMF too; I highly recommend them.





That was a tough spot to get my arm, welder, and welding helmet into so I made a few booboos but it will hold just fine until I can get in there without all the strapping and bracing I had going to get it tacked. I had to do a lot of push/pull from outside to get it lined up good enough. I only totally missed once and blew through once. I'll take it. There is NO FLOP and very little wobble in the tub now.

Also, some of you will be happy to know I've dropped the glass nose idea. I actually found some inspiration for a good way to frame the thing out using half inch tubing watching Ian Roussel put one of his cars together. I figure I can get consistent bands into the metal and build a skeleton, much like I tried to do in the beginning with the shrinker/stretcher and rod stock.

In the meantime, after getting the tub straight, I have been revisiting my firewall. So far I have it pulled out and the new sheet of 16ga cut, fit, and tacked in tight. I seem to have only made one big ugly mistake on the driver side where I overheated one of the bridging pieces between the new flat piece and the original curved part. I may need to cut that out to be able to live with it. I need to repair the passenger side leg anyway so the cutter is coming out next regardless.



When I start to run out of steam but I'm not quite ready to quit, I try to play with stuff now. Most recently, I decided it was probably a good use of this playtime to start figuring out where I want the Roll Bar to go and how to make that work. I am planning a square type roll bar with 45's on the corners (like you see in the Square Bars and Cool Cars book). It should mimic the casket shape fuel pump relief cutout in the firewall nicely.


And finally, It's about that time up here. It's been a warm fall in my New England town overall but I've had a few cold days and mornings.

 

I've been jumping around a little but still making progress. I'm going to split this into several posts.

Starting with the firewall, I got the 16ga plate welded in. I screwed up the gap filler pieces and had to cut them, re-brace everything, and re-weld it all. It was a mess. They were holding a flex in the plate that I didn't notice when I tacked it in. Then all the new welds made a mess that I had to grind out. Now I guess I will be using filler on the firewall!



I did a crap job welding wire around the perimeter too. I will never use 1/8 rod for stuff like this again. I have a high spot in the middle that I think I need to cut, flatten out, and re-weld that the wire certainly doesn't help.



I also repaired the pas side cowl foot and am pretty impressed with myself.




I made the casket shape relief box and have that welded in now too. This actually went pretty smooth!