People who care about the history of chopped early mercs have often wondered where this photo was taken.Jerrys merc was obviously fresh out of the shop with no window trim yet.This car show was just featured in TRJ#49,they had ran some photos that were borrowed from Ron Kellogg just like they said in the article.They had mentioned that they thought the show was in 1952 or 51. What does this have to do with this picture you ask? Well after many hours of studying the TRJ feature,I am 100% sure that this Quesnel photo was taken at the Montebello armory show in early 1951.I have studied the background,the angle of the braids in the ropes(stantions) and the length of the gr*** but most importantly I have studied the 49 chevy fastback that is parked next to Jerrys merc in this picture.**** part1**** PLEASE DONT COMMENT TILL I FINISH POSTING,I WILL WRITE "THE END"
Look real close at the car and notice the handles were left on the doors and the beltline was left on and the top of the seats are dark.Most importantly look close at the backdrop.... it is the dirty military tent.On the chevy look right above the roof towards the back, on top of the rear window,you will notice the black bold seam on the material of the backdrop.Then look at the opening centerfold in TRJ#49 pg129 and you will see the same 49 chevy fastback parked with a large empty space on its driverside.
There are a bunch of cards laying next to the chevy where Jerrys merc was parked when the merc picture was taken.They look to be about the same size as the one Jerry had stuck to his windshield during the show.Maybe when the pic was taken Jerry had already left or did not arrive at the show yet. Even if you look at the photo on pg 130 in TRJ#49 you can see Cliff Rockohns48 merc with the caddy grill then you see a big empty space next to the fastback chevy.That is where Jerrys merc was parked.That whole back section was Barris cars.Snooky's was there I believe Matranga was there and also Jack Stewarts way in the back,his has the sectioned hood.You can see that photo on pg 135.
The Ayala brothers also had some great cars at the show as well.So I am wondering if Jerrys merc wasnt the first one to hit the streets.. why was he the only 49 merc at the show? I believe this show was early 51(Jerrys front plate has 51 tag) and I dont think any of the other early mercs were on the road yet.I really think that if Sams merc was done and on the road there would be no reason why George wouldnt have it at this show,especially since the back row had so many great Barris customs. I also think that if the Ayalas had Wallys merc done at this time it would of also been here at Montebello.Wallys car was at PanPacific in nov.1951 but im sure this show was earlier then that since Jerrys merc appeared in a magazine oct.51 looking just like it did in this photo. I borrowed these pics just to show my thoughts so I hope I am in no way stealing or doing something wrong, THE END.
Sorry guys .... I forgot to include pg 130. Look real close in the background and you will see the 48 merc and a space and then the fastback chevy. ***THE END*** again.
Jeff, the Chevy Fleetline next to the empty spot in the TRJ photos and next to Jerry's Merc is most likely Gordon Anderson's 1949 Chevy by Barris. And this was an early 1950's Custom as well. So your time frame of early 1951 for the show must be about right.
Well Jeff I hate to do this but there are a few things that don't seem to jive to me. 1) The Chevy parked beside Jerrys Merc has light colored piping around the seat and the one pictured on page 129 does not apper to have it. 2) In the picture on page 135 there is a white tent post that is right in between the Chevy and the Merc. You can tell that it is in line with the ropes as they are wrapped around it. If Jerry's merc had indeed been between those two cars he would have had to have arrived or left before one of the other two cars were in place to avoid the post. Seems unlikely they would have gone to all that trouble. Also that post would have been right in front of his car which seems unlikely for what clearly would have been a very remarkable new custom. I at least waited until you put THE END. I wanted to start earlier.
K13 look at the grill of the Gordon chevy,then look at pg 135 in your issue #49. Same car.The reason about the piping is all the photos are to far away to see the light piping except for the one with Jerrys merc,its the only close picture.So you are trying to tell me that there was another chevy with the same grill and that also left the door handles on and the beltline??? The grill K13 the grill.
K13,the backdrops of these tents can be lifted from the backside.Look at your TRJ#49 and check out page132.As far as that pole goes...... why do think the pic of Jerrys merc is so close?
I am not saying it is not the Gordon car at the show just questioning if that is the car parked beside Jerry's. Now that said I can totally see the lighting making it difficult to see the piping so I won't argue that point very strongly. I cannot believe, however, that a one of a kind custom, more than likely making its debut appearance, would be placed behind a tent pole at any show. The space between the two cars is because the pole is there and no one wanted a car right behind it.
Ron Kellogg does not have the picture of Jerrys merc in his small Montebello armory show collection.Rodders Journal used all he had.
Come on man you think Jerry, or for that matter George, rolling out this one of a kind Custom to it's first show is going to put it in a spot where there is a tent post right smack dab in the middle of its grill. I know I wouldn't.
K13 look at the pics real close and you can see that the pole is almost directly in front of the chevy.The space from the pole to the 48 merc is huge compared to the space of the pole and the chevy.That pole is in no way centered like you make it seem like it is.Look at the bold dark seam that looks like it is coming out from the roof of the chevy in the opening pics of TRJ#49 then look at the pic of quesnels merc and look at the roof of the chevy real close and you will see that same black looking line. Look at the rope ,look at the gr***.Even the direction the rope is braided is the same as it is in the Quesnel photo.
Also if you look at the back of that empty spot it looks like there is an easel or table with a light on it. I bet there was an artist working there and the stuff on the ground is his work. I really don't think Jerry's car was in that spot.
Finally where are all the flags that are on the second rope in the TRJ shot (best seen on page 129). Did they take them down when Jerry arrived?
Not sure ... but look at pg 130 in the back row.... you see the fleetline chevy, you also see the 48 merc w/cad grill and look close,there are no flags on the rope at all.
But that would seem to indicate that Ron took pictures for an extended period of time while he was there and Jerry's car was in none of the shots. Seems strange that in every shot all the same cars are there except Jerry's.
Dude..K13.. you can try to split hairs and argue all you want but the fact of the matter is.... I just layed out alot of eveidence to show what I think.I mean really .... how many car shows were on gr*** and had the military tent style backdrops and used that same rope to keep the people back? Not to many,we know Jerrys merc was painted purple in 1952 so this had to be before that and this show is 1951 or maybe early 52 according to TRJ.Now you are going to tell me that this isnt the same show after you can see all these coincidences in the pictures.Jerry did not do many shows while in white primer,there wasnt many shows to do at that time.
The only hard evidence you have is they are both in a tent, the gr*** was the same length and a similar rope was used. Gordons car may be beside Jerry's although it also might not be (to my eye the picture on page 129 shows the seats in the Chev pretty clearly and ther is no piping), the spot was clearly being used for something else at some point during the show and there are no definitive pictures of Jerrys car there. You are grasping at as many straws as I am.
I love this CSI stuff. I'm wondering if they put those cars in there by lifting the tent wall. Seems easier than dealing with the rope and that pole.
Grasping.... I dont think so.So you are telling me that there were 2 chevy fleetlines running around with dark interior both with door handles and beltline and the exact same grill at a show that looks exactly the same? So TRJ was also wrong when they indentified Gordon Anderson's chevy as the one in their Montebello article? See I have something really good for you to grasp.....I was going to save this for later but might as well give you a taste.On 3/26/11, I talked to Jerry Q for almost 2 hours and he remembered this show because he remembered the military tents getting very hot and stuffy inside.So I think its safe to say he was there,I would never start a thread without backing it up first.Thats all I will say for now,you will have a chance to listen to some audio soon enough.
Great Photos If it's any help to confirm the dates of this show allow me to put my two cents in. In photo #5 page 130 there is an Los Angeles County Sheriff's Deputy. The uniform at that time was a Dark Green shirt and Dark green Trousers. In 1956 they changed to a Tan shirt and Dark Green pants. And how do I know this, I'm a retired L.A County Deputy. Not trying to add any fuel to the fire but just some info. Again great Photos and I also remember some of the cars
Dude I never questioned that the Gordon car was at the show so I don't know why you keep bringing that up. I see no grill in the picture of Jerry's car so you can't say for sure it was the same car at the same show. Is it possible sure. Is it an absolute? To me definitley not as I still question the piping. I am sure Jerry is a great guy but it has been 60 years and it is possible that he was at more than one show held in a tent again maybe not but most people don't have perfect memory for things that happened 60 years ago. It looks like the car had been shown before by the number of trophies sitting in front of it so maybe the same promoter had another show that he used the tent and ropes for. I am just not going to blindly agree when there are clearly a bunch of descrepancies in the photo evidence. It is not meant to be a personal attack just pointing out that things are not as cut and dry as you seem to want to make them. I appreciate your p***ion for this but to me it makes no sense that they would have what looks like an artist set up in a spot with his easel a light attached, what looks like another table and his artwork laying on the ground and then when Jerry shows up make him pack it all up and move it oh yeah and take down the flags. I may be wrong but it looks weird to me. Please don't take this as questioning your integrity or Jerry's just pointing out some things that I think are worth mentioning.
Here is another photo of the Gordon Anderson Chevy. This photo comes from the Custom Cars Trend book #101 from 1951. The interior looks a lot like the one in the TRJ photos. And there is no white piping, possibly still factory stock at this point. But the photos of this car where possibly made in 1950 to be published in the Trend book in 1951. So perhaps it had a new custom interior, when it was parked next to Jerry's Merc. And possibly the flash used in the Merc Chevy photo - taken at night? - showed the piping and the day time photos did not? The tent poles and ropes behind the chevy look to be identical in both the TRJ Jerry Chesebrough photo as is the Marcia Campbell photo from the Quesnel Mercury. I'm looking at an original scan of the last photo which shows a bit more detail than the copy that I made in Sacramento and that was used by Jeff. But the interior and the artist space are a bit confusing. Could the flags be put up by the artist that was using the spot? Perhaps in the case it was a multiple day show Jerry was showing his car one day and the other day the space was "rented" to the artist. The Rodder's Journal article shows that section of the tent with and without the flags. Does anybody know if this/these where one or multiple day show(s)?
You crack me up man ..... you have tried to dispute just about every post I have ever did when talking mercs.Its pretty funny,as far as the flags went.... where are they on page 130,I dont think you answered that earlier.To see the grill on the chevy look at page 135 all the way to the left you can clearly see the grill.As far as setting up a table in that place......ever thought about if someone got pissed off and left the show during the show or after the first day? Jerry had a very short fuse in those days especially when it came to George.He got real tired of being told he needed to raise his car up and he was told that quite often. It dont matter man,you always have a dispute no matter what it is but you never bring anything that you discovered to the table,you just like to TRY to prove others wrong.This story of Jerry at Montebello is just getting started so there will be plenty of disputing for you to do.
Again with the grill. I AM NOT DISPUTING that the Chevy was at the show I am questioning if Jerry's Merc was there. And now we have a picture of the Chevy without piping like it appears to be shown in the TRJ issue not like it was in the picture with Jerry's car. I am guessing that the flags were put up after the picture without them was taken. It was probably taken during the set up of the show. So now you are claiming that Jerry's stormed off and that is why there is an artist in his spot? So let me get the timeline right. Ron took a picture of the show without Jerry's car there no flags, Jerry came set up got pissed off and left, Ron got no picture while the car was there, then an artist set up in his spot they put up the flags and Ron took some more pictures. I don't try and prove others wrong but I don't blindly believe everything that is posted with out looking at it critically. That is what discussing history is about questioning things so that the truth comes out. If you and Rik hadn't questioned and looked so closely at the pcitures that were claimed to be Sam's car being chopped we may have never found out the it was in fact Jerry's. That is what this is all about just because it doesn't always come out in your favour doesn't mean you have to get mad.
No I didnt "claim" that Jerry got pissed off and left,I was simply saying it could have happened,so make sure you have it right before you post up what I "claimed". Yes there was a easel in that spot and maybe someone was doing some painting there or maybe not.Look at the sign on Jerrys merc in the photo on the windshield,it sure looks like it was painted to me.Maybe someone set up and painted all the showcards for the Barris cars,since they were all parked in that area.The photos from Chesebrough sure do look like they were taken before the show started,so who knows maybe Jerry arrived to the show right before it opened up,we all know how often cars are getting to shows at the last minute.The merc was obviously fresh since it didnt have any window trim yet.That easel could be taken down in a matter of a couple minutes after everyones signs were painted. Notice the angle of the picture with Jerrys merc,its a front 3/4 shot from the drivers side.Then look at all the show photos.... the pic of Jerrys merc sure does look like it was parked the exact same angle as the fleetline. Your probably right though K13 it must have been another show that Jerry was at that also had the same rope,same gr***,same military tent backdrop and Jerry just happened to park next to the same fleetline (but with white piping) at another show.Its just a coincidence that this fleetline had a empty space next to it before the show started. we all know that people who grew up in L.A. back then are always talkin about all the different car shows they had in military tents on gr*** in L.A. back in 1951.It really amazes me how all of those shows have stayed secret all this time.Thanks for letting me know that I was just "Grasping" when I made this thread.I mean there is no way Mr.Quesnel could possibly remember the first show's he took his mercury to,so he had to be mixed up when he told me.I am not mad at all,im thankful.
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