in my 65 dodge town wagon, with a 361 engine, i have decided to upgrade from a 727 torqueflite to a overdrive 46rh with a lock up stall converter. my confusion is on the internal and external balancing used on various engines. my 361 has a forged steel crank,and is internally balanced. it seems that a lot of the later engines that used the 46rh are externally balanced??? a externally balanced engine has weights on the converter doesn't it? so i guess the question is,, will a lock up converter from a 46rh cause a balance problem
If your 46rh converter has counterbalance weights they should be visible to eye, just cut 'em off. Otherwise they surely will ruin your balancing.
5.2 is internally balanced. 5.9 is externally balanced with weights. The weights can be taken off, but not put on.
...better double check that...virtually everything after 1980 had a cast crank. As to converter balance, some of the 'tabs' you find on the sides of a Mopar converter are there to actually make it to 'zero' so some caution is in order before randomly removing any. Converters on a cast crank are the obvious difference and weights are applied to the front face (flexplate side) depending on the application. Check with TSR Racing Products. https://www.tsr-racing.com/ .
What should I double check? I've got a 360 ready to go in but there's no weights on the converter. Here's the funny part I'm trying to grasp, see if you can follow this bouncing ball of a story I get. Truck blows Trans and a new Trans goes in behind 360. Shortly after develops bad rod knock. Engine comes out and there's no weights on converter. Duh? trans shop screwed up. Replacement JUnk yard engine is 5.2 so no biggie there. 6 months later 5.2 from junk yard develops a rod knock, but it has the 360 balancer from the first one. SOB how hard can it be?
There's many ways to screw up the balancing, SB MoPar crank dampers can also have offset balancing or not. They don't mix and match either.
i'm planning on using the ultrabell housing at this time. i haven't ordered anything yet till i get this balance thing figured out. many vendors sell stall converters for the 46rh, but they list them for 5.2 AND 5.9? (including patc)how can this be as one is internal, and one is external. as i know my 361 is internal, i'm ***uming i need a 5.2 converter. no, i don't want to be grinding off weights, unless i know for sure they need to come off
One could use a zero-balance converter on a 5.9 along with an aftermarket flexplate having the weight imbalance such as B&M #10239. How high of stall are you looking for? A factory high stall converter may be enough depending on what you are looking for. And remember that it should stall a little higher in a 361 than a 318 because of the bigger engine's additional displacement (torque).
I am running the original 270 Hemi in my '55 Dodge and it is backed up with the 46RH trans. I have had the 270 completely balanced and the torque converter I am using is from a 360. I was informed that this was the one to use because it was zero balanced. When I got the converter it had some small tab like weights welded to the outer side of the converter which I ***umed were there just to zero balance the unit. I installed this particular converter because of a vibration I had when I had a 318 converter in the car. Well the new converter did not solve the problem. The vibration is still there. It is a harmonic type vibration that comes in at about 1100 RPM. and seems to level out somewhat at about 1800 to 2000 RPM. Should I have removed these small welded on weights??? I have driven the car at highway speeds for over 12000 miles like this with no apparent problems but one might think that this is a serious problem just waiting to happen. Any opinions ?????
They are probably listing both 5.2 and 5.9 because the actual year engines using the 46rh will have cast cranks and be externally balanced. And an fyi for those who don't understand, a 361 is a low deck BB Mopar. Not a small block.
All 360/5.9 engines are externally balanced...always have been, no exceptions. The correct converter will have weights on it. As FinnishFireball notes, and with regards to cast crank engines, the front dampener, as well as the converter, must be for the correct application. The 318 dampener is different than the 340 with is different than the 360 and so on. With a forged crank there is no external balancing except for the 440-6pak. At one time TSR had photos of some Mopar converters and they showed size and location of the various weights but I don't see it on their website now and I don't recall if it included all of the new-fangled pieces. An email to them may be helpful. I have some weight info and I'll see if I can get photos onto my website but it might take awhile. At one time, I was told by B&M tech line that the 10236-10237-10239 could be used in the reverse application from what they show but that would only be for a 360/5.9 converter, not a 5.2, 4.7, et al. as the amount of weight varies so much between applications. As to the 318 vs. 5.2 label, my 1986 truck service manual refers to 318 & 360 and differentiates between cranks but my 1992 fsm calls them 5.2/5.9 and no mention of the 360 crank being 'different'. P***enger cars seem to have started using the 5.2 around 1982-83. It is not unreasonable to think that the trucks maintained a forged crank in the 318 long after the cars switched to cast. Truly, the best and easiest way out is to buy a converter for the desired combination. .
The earlier Mopar V8 did not use a harmonic dampener on the front of the crankshaft, only a pulley. They have been known to break crankshafts. There are modified 340 dampeners offered that will fit your 270. I know Hot Hemi Heads has them and you might first check with 73RR and TRWaters here on the HAMB to see if they offer these...or what they recommend. Both are good guys and deserving of consideration. Ray
Thanks Ray, you are correct about the early engines. There are two ways to get a balancer onto one of the early engines, Poly or Hemi. Any of the forged crank dampeners can be re-broached, in the existing location or in a new location, or, a stepped key can be used. Early engines use a 5/16" key and 'new' stuff uses a 1/4" key. If you have a milling machine you can cut your own stepped key, or, Tom and I both sell them. Forget about using the timing marks on the 'new' dampener, mark the donor for your engine or use timing tape. .
Thanks for reply Hnstray. I already have one of these dampners installed on the engine. I thought that would help. Maybe it did but very little if any. This vibration is not the rattle your teeth type. It's just more of an aggrivating nuisance and the type that keeps you wondering when the BIG problem is liable to hit ....
da dodge brother. you said you are using a 5.9 converter on a internally balanced engine? that could be your vibration.
30 dodge boy i am thinking 2500-2600 stall 0n the converter. as the town wagon is fairly heavy, and i have a 4:10 rear end. may even want to go more as it will be a lockup converter for the highway.
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