Technical Mopar long ram intake and carburetor questions

Hey... how y'all doin'?
Yer lookin' good.

I'm trying to set myself up with an early 60's Mopar Long Ram intake system for my 440. I've done a lot of research. There's not an overabundance of knowledge available. And not all of what's out there is correct. But I sifted through and got a pretty good handle on things.

But I still have a couple questions. Maybe some of you can help me figure this out.

Nobody talks about the carburetors. This system uses the only spread-bore Carter AFB carburetors that I'm aware of. And they're rare. And they can be expensive. As far as I know, all other AFBs are square bore.

I'm looking at an intake manifold locally that's in very good condition.
NO CARBURETERS.
I'm talking with someone on the internet who has an intake for about the same money.
WITH ORIGINAL AND COMPLETE CARBURETERS. Unfortunately, the chokewells in this intake have been corroded to the point that they need some weld repair.

You guys have any thoughts about what might be my best choice?
Specifically...
Buy the damaged intake with the carburetors and cut and weld and modify and sand and polish with abandon?
Or buy the nice intake and find carburetors for it?
BUT WHAT CARBURETORS???
Kinda hoping I'm wrong about there not being any other spread-bore AFBs.
Questionable whether spread-bore Holly 4V carburetors would even fit.
Questionable whether I would even want to use anything other than AFB carburetors.
We're talking Mopar here after all.

Thanks, guys.

 

We like pictures.

 

I would take a set in any sort of condition for the right price!! I really badly want a set.

 

None of them are for the right price. LOL

 

Can you swing both? Keep the good parts, repair and resell what you don't use.

 

I actually thought about that. It would be a big investment. I can barely afford one system right now. Maybe with more time. In the long run, I'd probably be further ahead.
And happiest.

 

I'm thinking about it.
Buy the damaged intake with the carbs first.
Repair/modify
Maybe sell and upgrade later.
Good idea.

 

Considering that the choke pots can be blocked off on both the bottom and top, you can safely work with corroded manifolds as long as the corrosion does not extend into the intake runner plenum. You can use electric choke AFBs or manual choke carbs with a pull cable (I've done them both ways).

You haven't mentioned prices, but just a bare pair of intakes with no other linkage or parts is worth at most 1200-1400. You'll easily spend another 1500+ just getting all the linkage, balance tub, carbs, fuel lines, air cleaners etc...

The correct carbs that one guy has should be marked 2903S in the base of each, if they have that they're worth probably 350-500ea as rebuildable cores.

You'll also need a camshaft designed to work with the longrams, and of course that will be a custom grind, here's a link to a description of the Letter car Camshafts, you'd be looking at 1960-61 specs for long rams and 1963-64 if the set you're looking at are the short ram variant.
https://www.chrysler300club.com/tech/cam/gk.html

 

My understanding is the manifolds take the old Carter AFB and that the carb basses have to be bored out to accept an Edelbrock. They are not spread bore.

 

Looks like spread bore to me.

 

Yeah, any spread bore carb fits, some guys are even running Sniper EFI (not HAMB guys)

 

Yes, you can Mount Holly carburetors on them and it will work fine. A friend of mine RIP, had that same set up on a 25 Chrysler with a 440 in it. It's on the cover of the David Perry book Hot rods and pin ups. The car club that we Are all in , wheel tramps Have bought the car from the estate and are planning on putting it back on the road. He fabricated his own linkage out of solid rod. And for the crossover pipe, he just used a radiator flex hose. And it's lasted about 15 years. I'll find some More pictures, but here's a dragster with the setup and a picture of when it was a day old in the front yard.

 

Thanks, @caprockfabshop

Even the plenum could be cut and rebuilt. Do anything you want, really. Yes? Though I wouldn't want to have to mess with the runners.

No worries with electric or manual choke.

Carbs are 2903S
I agree on the price.

Thinking a stock RV cam might work well.
Apparently, the original setup had a retarded timing gear.

 

@wheeltramp brian !!!
That's pretty close to my heart.
Your buddy (RIP) put together something quite similar to what I'm thinking of for my 1926 Dodge 4dr.
And the Holly carbs fit!
Even with the bowl pointed toward the runners! Cool.
The Holley carburetors are turned the other way on the dragster. That puts the primaries and secondaries front and back. Interesting.

Speaking of close to the heart, it's awesome that you guys are gonna get your buddy's car going.

 

The good intake includes the balance tube. And linkage and other small parts. No air cleaners. That's okay, I don't want original air cleaners.

I like the idea of maybe using cables for the throttle. Eliminate the original throttle linkage for a cleaner look.

Good to know the Holleys fit.
So that's an option.
I know I could buy the good intake and wouldn't be painting myself into a corner.

 

A long ram intake manifold without AFB carburetors.
Almost doesn't seem right.
But that's what hot rodders do... screw with stuff. LOL

I'll bet some of us even put dirty words in perfectly nice songs.

 

Seriously though... for my complete Mopar Nirvana, I think they'd have to be AFBs.

 

I say if you can swing it buy both, put the carbs on the good manifold and fix and sell the bad one.

 

I'm interested in the camshaft specs (in understandable terms...duration@050...LSA...Lift that kinda stuff)
Saw many of these BITD but was too green to learn about them!
6sally6

 

Some mis-information in this thread.

The 2903s are "square bore" carbs, not "spread bore"

Square bore carbs can differ from front to rear by 1/8 inch (1 9/16 primary, 1 11/16 secondary are quite common).

Some added information:

The 2903s are 625 CFM.

When I was still doing carburetors, was quite successful in building "driver" or "racer" not numbers-matching using the various Carter Competition Series carbs. The carbs to start with for this project would be the 4759s (1 9/16 primary, 1 11/16 secondary). The 4759s are manual choke carbs.

An article discussing 4 barrel flanges:

https://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Four_barrel_mounting_flanges.htm

Jon

 

@carbking
I was hoping you'd pop in.
Pop pop

The 2903S is square bore?
I tried but couldn't find pictures to verify one way or the other.
The intake manifolds themselves look to be a spread bore design. So I assumed the carburetors are also.
Jon, are you saying that they mounted square bore carburetors to these spread bore intakes?
Thank you.

 

Or are you saying that the intake manifolds aren't actually spread bore design?

 

I have one thing to add: trying to weld those up is a fiasco. They were run on leaded gas. The porosity of the alum. lets it absorb so there's room for an education. Decades ago, many were thrown away because of that.

 

I'm listening, @wfo guy
I want to understand.
The aluminum won't weld very well because of the infusion of lead?
Thank you.

 

You might enjoy these:

 

The manifolds are square bore.

Jon

 

Almost every modern AFB or Holley carb has dual pattern baseplates, so they'll fit onto the factory locations without adaptors, I guess that's what I meant.

 

I was thinking that those ended production before spread bore carbs as we know them now ever showed up.
Back in the 60's I was around Bob Norwood who was later the go to Ferrari tuner in Dallas but was the go to Mopar tuner in the PNW and as the dealership he worked for was closed on Saturdays and open on Sundays you usually ran into a WSP state patrolman who had made the trip to Grandview (Wa) to have his patrol car get the Norwood touch. He had one on his T bucket but didn't have one on his race car that ran a 413.
Back then they were viewed more as a top end speed manifold than a drag car manifold though.