I asked a while back about which lacquer product to use- PPG DDL or TCP globals restoration shop product. Because of price I went with the TCP product. My next question is about variations in shades of color when spraying at different times. If I shoot the body one week, paint the doors another week, the hood and trunk lid another, etc. Will the paint look exactly the same? Will there be any variations due to temperature, humidity, or other factors? I will be spraying from the same batch as I purchased enough product to paint the car twice- hopefully I don't mess up more than that! Thanks again for everyones input.
If it is metallic you should keep track of the air pressure and at least the number of coats that you apply. I would also combine the paint into one can if possible. Keep track of the way that you thin it and the thinner should be from the same manufacturer as the paint. I'm sure others will also add to this with useful suggestions. KK
Thanks KoolKat- I should have mentioned- it is a very pale blue- no metallic. This will be my very first garage pant job- not ready to tackle metallics. Thanks again!
Hey, If ya gotta sitck with your staggered spray plan, I do the following: Try to select the same time of day and temperture, same air pressure at the gun, and same distance from all panels when spraying. Also, be sure to stick to the same thinning and same thinner from start to finish- remember most acrylic lacquers were thinned 150% be sure you buy enought preminum lacquer! If you stir and mix this colour well, you should have no trouble with this match " Meanwhyle, back aboard The Tainted Pork "
I'm doing mine in PPG DDL, mixed my own color from toners I got from a parts place that got sold. I don't think you can paint as you get parts ready, and expect a match if it has poly (metallic) IMO.. I had 3.5 gallons mixed with a m***ive amount of poly. I have the mixing containers that paint stores use on the rack of toners, and I mix the gallon each time I go to fill the gun. I just did the headlight buckets from the last of the first gallon, and they are way lighter, due to more poly...despite the fact that I machine mixed every time. My plan is to get the last 4 parts in color (the 4 fenders), and then try to reshoot everything at one time. I'm not finding the good thinner. Duplicolor can says it's for "all laquers" "premium", "medium temp" etc...but it is 100% acetone which dries as it hits the surface. I just went a few towns away to get PPG medium temp, same dam part number on a 25 year old PPG can I still had, but the ingredients are way different...so it may not be like the old days..have not tried it yet; $50 a gallon! I will stick with it because where I hand rubbed a few minutes in a couple of spots, it looks exactly like the sheen I wanted. Not "in your face-wet look". It looks like a 3 year old 66 chevy that was waxed regularly...not some plastic looking finish. Speaking of those old mid 60s chevys done in factory poly laquer, the front clips were painted separate, and some lighter color ones sure did not match after exposed to a years worth of sun. I just saw you posted no poly, so maybe you will be OK..maybe. Bear in mind that it does not apply like enamels or urethanes...it is very thinned, and each coat is ultra thin with very little mil thickness build up.
Hey, As ''real'' lacquer thinner has been ****ed over by the '' tree-huggin'' govment, you may have to resort to mixing your own. "Lacquer Thinner'' is really a generic term for a number of different solvents. Most high grade thinners contain acetone, but also xylene, toluene & esters. Each of these solvents dries at a different rate, and must be blended for your own use. These solvents may be hard to come by in small containers, and their quality maybe marginal depending on supplier, but if '' quality '' is what you're after, than '' home brew'' may be your only option Out here in the '' Peoples Republic of Kalifornica '' it's not legal to clean a spray gun with ''lacquer thinner'' acetone must only be used. A little work about ''juiced'' lacquer........ watch out for sandscratch swelling and blushing if a very slow thinner is used, or very wet coats are sprayed Good luck, youll do jus fine
Is this just a South Coast Air Quality Management District thing or have the looney *******s banned it statewide? Ridgecrest? Blythe? I go to Havasu several times a year so I can still find it in a state that has not gone totally nuts.
Seeing as how your not using metallics your shouldn't have any problems as long as you stir the paint well to make sure some heavier toners haven't settled and you put on enough coats to ensure complete coverage. The amount of thinner, air pressure, ect really only comes into play with metallics and even then lacquer is more forgiving then other paint. If you bought more then came in one can , say 2 gallons, you do need to mix the cans together since the paint store might of mixed each can just a bit different, any paint store gets the toners off a few grams as they mix. Really, you need to stop worring about it, your doing as easy as a paint job there is for a begineer, it's almost impossible to screw up solid color lacquer.
I will be painting my truck in pieces with lacquer paint. It's a solid color and I plan on spraying the same amount of coats on each panel because lacquer is sprayed very thin so 6 coats of lacquer will be lighter than 12 coats. I also bought all the paint at one time because if you buy one gallon then go back and buy another gallon, the color may be off slightly. Good luck and maybe you can post some before and after pics.
A lot of what I have read is encouraging. Luckily I am sticking with a solid color (No metallic). I will try to keep the same conditions when painting and be consistent- I won't be tackling this until July/August as I am off all summer. Fortunately the supplier suggested to me to have everything mixed together. I purchased two gallons- I had to pay a little more because I had them put it in quart containers instead of gallons since I knew I would be using small quan***ies each time. I will be taking some before and after pics when I finally get on this. I am doing all of my research, planning, purchasing, etc before hand because as soon as school is out I am getting right on this. I figure if there is some mis-match I can always shoot one last coat over the entire car at the end when it is together. It just seems that I can really pay attention to each panel one at a time- and If I screw up it easier to identify and fix my mistakes on a single panel rather than an entire vehicle. Other than small parts this will be my first full paint job. My only other concern is the high heat and humidity we have here in PA during the summer. I read on another thread about tinting the primer to be close in color to the topcoat. I already purchased the primer but I may send it back and see if they can do that. Sounds like it may take less topcoats when the primer matches the topcoat. Thanks to everyone for all of the advice and encouragement.
The other thing that I didn't see mentioned, paint the panels how they "live" on the car. If you paint the doors laying flat on a couple saw horses they'll dry a different color. Yes, even on an opaque light color, and sometimes worse on those. The tints and toners all have different weights by volume. The heavier tones will settle to the bottom of each coat and leave the top different. Believe me, I've had dozens of "pros" tell me I'm full of **** on that score, paint is paint, blah, blah. I know better and found out the hard way decades ago. You don't see it on full refinish jobs that are painted ***embled. Pastel colors are the worst offenders of all, especially yellows and pale blues. The rest of the advice you got is good. Record your percentages and settings, air pressure, shop temp, etc. With lacquer it REALLY makes a difference. Beware of blushing which is caused by trapping humidity between coats, and the best way to avoid that is moving air and picking the right day, or time of day. In extreme cases (we get lots of humidity in S.E.MI) I've even run a heater for a short time to "dry the shop air". It works. Best plan is to watch the weather channel a week or so before you commit and plan accordingly. Good luck, and if you need it feel free to PM if you think you're getting in trouble. Lacquer rules...
Now there is a new one that I have not heard. Definitely would have been a saw-horse job. Still ok for the trunk lid and hood but not the doors and fenders. This is why I started asking early on. Whether some say it is true or not it is easy enough to do and avoid any potential problems. Thanks!
This colour/tone settlment problem started when-again, your nanny-state govt. - mandated the removal of all heavy metal pigments like lead, cadminim & zinc from paint products Today's paints have replaced those metals with chalk, clay & more plastic resins Here in the Los Angeles County, home to over 16 million, homeowners can buy lacquer thinner otc, but commerical shops are prohibited from its' use because of the voc issue, ditto synthetic & acrylic enamel and lacquer based paints.
Interesting, never heard of the toners settling as it dries. I painted solid colors dissasembled on stands ect for years and never had a problem, metallic I have seen color shift however as the metallic "sinks". Another problem I've never had is blushing, I heard about, read about it in manuels but never experianced it in 40 years I've been painting. Guess it pays to live/ work in an area that people complain about it being "humid" when it gets to 10%. I'm sorry, I still don't get why some of you say lacquer is so critical to spray exactly the same mixture, air pressure, room temp ect. The first 10 years I painted was production shops with lots a lacquer and we never paid attention to that stuff, just throw it in the cup, eyeball measure some thinner and spray. I never measured a mix ratio till the urathanes came in, to me that's when things got critical, we started using measuring cups, putting airline dryers in, heated booths, all that. I still feel like I miss the simplisity of lacquer.
Well I'm glad the advice was well received, but here's another that will sometimes crop up, although not necessarily lacquer related. We were trying to match a late model 'Vette yellow. It was always too green or too orange. The guy heading that one was a bit stubborn about things to try and this gig went on for 2 days. That's right, he spent 2 ****in days trying to get it right. Finally the paint rep shows up with some tints (suggested on the 1st day) and the guy essentially gave up when he showed. I "eyeballed" some color moves and whipped up some base, and then this "weight" issue came into my mind before I sprayed. The temp was about 80 that day and my spray outs weren't in a controlled environment. I used the "65" level reducer vs the "85", as in less flash time. To prove my thoughts I mixed 2 guns, one with the 85. The rep was confused but impressed, I was happy that it worked. Slow reducer, again too orange. Fast reducer, dead-on-balls perfect. Allowed to stay wet too long, the transparent toners were "floating" to the top, where when flashed quickly it settled into a perfect match. This was a blazing bright Vette yellow from some early 2000-something Z06. The funny part was the 1st techs refusal to use "the wrong reducer" and the mis-match he got again...for the 5th time. In the end, it's not rocket science but it pays to be open minded if you have a basic knowledge of the elements involved. The orange tone was a transparent tint, lighter than the the rest that was in there. Just an FYI...
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