Technical MOTOR, flathead build ... tips tricks???

You're welcome . . .

Does anyone have any questions, comments, corrections, or recommendations that could make this thread really helpful?

I would not like to see this entered into the Tech archives without some discussion and even some debate; this ain't writ in stone, folks!

 

Mike, Great info. Would like to add that Flatattack Racing makes Aluminun water pumps along with Adjustable timing gears. All available thru Red's, I think

 

Great! That's the kind of info that should be included in this thread, just as long as it's a good product and does what it's supposed to do.

 

Mike, when is the Tardel catalog coming out? I need one of those T-5 adaptor plates. Thanks...

 

Mike, how ya doin'?
This has been a great TECH thread; thanks to you!

Something that I have been "wrestling" with is "HEAD STUDS" vs "HEAD BOLTS." After a long discusion with Red Hamilton (Red's Headers) he convinced me that STUDS c/w hardened washers and nuts (with aluminum heads) was FAR better.

Then the other day while lowering a certain crank in place I took a hard look at reinforcement straps on the top of the main bearing caps. Do you or Vern have any opinions on whether this idea is good, or bad?

The opinions seem to be mixed, some claiming that the strap "pressure" bolt could crack the main bearing caps.

BTW - had to build up the thrust flange; too much end play.

Then something I'd never heard of before popped up at the balancers. He does an overall stress relieving of the crank with a process called, META-LAX. It "shakes" the molocules of the WHOLE crank in line with each other! (should make it even BETTER!)

Do a search on "Meta-Lax"; tried to copy the site address, but it's so long it blew this thread "out of the water!!"

Dave

 

thanks,this is the way the hamb should always be

 

Red's right. Consensus is that studs are better than bolts, but in either case it's best to use new hardware.

With regard to the main-cap straps . . . After the mains have been torqued, with the straps in place, the center bolt should be run down against the main cap just until it's snug -- not a great amount of pressure. Then, hold the center bolt to keep it from turning further and tighten the locknut. The strap is a reinforcement, like adding heft to the cap. If the center bolt is tightened with a great deal of force is can distort the main cap.

Thanks for the META-LAX link, Dave. I'll check it out tomorrow. Right now I'm about to crawl under the bunnyrug.

 

Meta-Lax

Here's the link I found - never heard of this, but it makes some sense...

 

great information
wondering if i used gm hei would you still use the h 10 champions and if so what would be the plug gap.
thanks

 

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Red's right. Consensus is that studs are better than bolts, but in either case it's best to use new hardware.

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I purchased a set of ARP studs c/w hardened washers and nuts from him.
He also recomended, Permatex Type 3H, Aviation "Form-A-Gasket" sealant liquid, for the ends of the studs threaded into the block. The Item number is 80019. (small container with brush)

[ QUOTE ]
With regard to the main-cap straps . . . After the mains have been torqued, with the straps in place, the center bolt should be run down against the main cap just until it's snug -- not a great amount of pressure. Then, hold the center bolt to keep it from turning further and tighten the locknut. The strap is a reinforcement, like adding heft to the cap. If the center bolt is tightened with a great deal of force is can distort the main cap.

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Mark Kirby wrote an article (or someone wrote for him) a piece that said, One of the problems of reinforcement straps is; the point of contact of the center bolt (on the cap) is often rough, so by milling a "flat" at the contact point (just enough to create a flat) would reduce the chance of a "false" feel of the bolt touching a rough spot.

Mark (I don't know if he still is operating MCF due to health problems) actually made a "button" that sat between the end of the bolt and the flat on the top of the cap. The idea was the button would "spread" the contact with the top of the cap.

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Thanks for the META-LAX link, Dave. I'll check it out tomorrow. Right now I'm about to crawl under the bunnyrug.

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Ernie staightened out the link address above.

The balancer that is doing my work just happens to have a Meta-Lax system in his shop, (it has a "table" about 5 feet by 6 feet) anything that is bolted to it can be stress relieved. For the crank, I'm making a pair of brackets; one to bolt to the "snout" of the crank and the other to the rear flange and then tied to the table.

I sort of jokingly said, "Hey what would happen if we bolted the engine block on the table?" His answer; "Sure, bring it out and we can stress relieve it TOO!"

He is also "shot peening" the crank throws (at the journal radius) and the new French connecting rods. (he is going to "Meta-Lax" the rods as well)

Don't know if all this stress relieving is worth it. But I'm going to be RELIEVED!!

 

With regard to the Intake Manifold...When speaking with Barney Navarro I mentioned running a 2x2 manifold with his heads. He said that a 3x2 works better (with a progressive linkage) than a 2x2 intake. Can anyone speculate as to why or why not? Or in what circumstances? Matt

 

I am curiuos too about the intakes, I have been told that the tall 2x2 intakes were the ones to have... I think that the Thickstun pm-7 is being reproduced. Tim

 

I know that this has been brought up before, and I tried a search for it, couldn't find a thing......anyhow, it's matches the thread.......Fuel Pumps, I have to replace mine on my 50 Ford running a 50 Merc flathead...The stewart Warner one I had somehow the gas ate the rubber ring/gasket from the inside of the bowl. I was wondering what the masses prefer...It's running a Sharp super with 97's and a regulator turned down to 2....

 

Yea, they're making the PM-7, just call red's headers, they usually carry em in stock.

 

As far as the tall intakes, Speedway has the Eddie Meyer hi-rise....but 600.00 seems a bit steep..

 

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When speaking with Barney Navarro I mentioned running a 2x2 manifold with his heads. He said that a 3x2 works better (with a progressive linkage) than a 2x2 intake. Can anyone speculate as to why or why not? Or in what circumstances?

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Remember Barney builds high-end stuff, so his setups might be more tolerant of a bigger carb. Also, if set up with 3x81s instead of 97s, that might prove more suitable as well.

I've seen 3x2 set up with a 48 or 97 in the center & 81s on the ends - the thinking is 2 of the smaller carbs for when it all comes in...

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I think that the Thickstun pm-7 is being reproduced

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Tony Baron is reproducing them.

I've got an original that I'm going to put on my '40 when I get back to the states. I'll probably build up 2x81s for it because I've got a stock 221 in the '40 (for now).

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Speedway has the Eddie Meyer hi-rise....but 600.00 seems a bit steep

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The 8BA EM hi-rise is a pretty intricate casting with the heat riser & all. Not sure if all of that is necessary - I know the 59A style is significantly cheaper...

 

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Tony Baron is reproducing them.

I've got an original that I'm going to put on my '40 when I get back to the states. I'll probably build up 2x81s for it because I've got a stock 221 in the '40 (for now).


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Does this mean that they are different? He must be using the same castings?

 

Can we get a discussion going about Road-Draft Tubes...Function/Need, etc. Does a hot rod need them to run properly, what did they do back in the day with regards to dressing up engines and keeping the functionality of the tubes?

 

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Does this mean that they are different? He must be using the same castings?

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Not to my knowledge - I believe the Baron repro is a faithful copy - if not from the same molds. I've not seen one in person, but have heard they're beautiful.

 

Matt -- Consider running a PCV valve in place of a road-draft tube, and think of its positive contributions to your engine rather than its role in reducing emissions. Bruce Lancaster has lots of good information on this subject, and let's hope he logs in with it on this thread.

 

Hi Guys,

From a flat-motor new guy I just wanted to say a thanks to those that contributed to this post. Seems to be alot of smoke and mirrors, rumours and voodoo when talking abotu flatheads. Thanks for the no nonsense tech content!

Danny

 

im sure ill have more quesstions once i tear mine down. i do have one. anybody have imput on reliefing. ive seen some that have a sraight cut, is that any eazyer to do than the teardrop shaped reliefs. sorry, dont have a pic. anybody know what im talking about?

 

I know exactly what you're talking about. IMHO based on lots of reading & listening to folks with much more experience than me, I believe a shallow relief no more than 0.100" or so is more than adequate for most applications. As far as shape, I believe it should follow the shape of the combustion chamber of the heads you choose to run.

There is controversy over the efficacy of relieving, so no doubt you'll hear conflicting information. There are many who subscribe to the theory that relieving is unnecessary & improves flow only minimally. There are also folks inbetween who say that just radiusing the transition out of the valve pockets is more than enough.

 

Hey Guys,

Without stealing this post, just wondering if anyone had really dyno HP results from thier flatmotor rebuild. Sure be interesting to see what the parts combinations actually produce HP wise.

Danny

 

I just got an email from Red's saying that the PM7, were 450.00 plus the fuel block for another 150.00. Anyone have a picture of the fuel block?

Also not to beat a seemingly missed question.......Electric fuel pumps?? Any sugestions? I am replacing a Stewart Warner that was only 2-3 years old..

 

Mike, the subject of PCV valves came up a couple of weeks ago. (or was it months)
4t6frd, (I think) Ernie and I went into quite a bit of detail about the use of PCV's on flatheads and the interchange of old (pre '49) intake manifolds and new,(post '49) on old and new engines. I think there was also some discussion about road draft tubes.

Ernie, did it make it into TECH?

 

Guys heres some pix of how Im doing my PCV setup on my 8BA. Its an all hidden set up the sits in the vallry, under the intake.

You shorten and block off the tube that comes up thru the valley from the oil pan and braze in a fitting that will accept a rubber hose from the tube to the PCV.

Then u drill/tap the runner under the intake and fit the PCV to it. The tube fitting and the port fitting are connected by the PCV and rubber hose.

The pix explain more than my half assed explanation will.

Rat

 

Pic #2

Rat

 

Last one

Rat

 

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Ernie, did it make it into TECH?

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I don't think it did, but is this the one you're talking about?

Flathead Intake Post