Technical MOTOR, flathead build ... tips tricks???

zgears, you started a great thread!

Now that it has settled down;

Ryan or Grimlock, can this be placed in TECH-O-Matic. Please and Thank you.

Too much GOOD stuff to let slip by!

 

The old-time waterpump modifications (removing every other vane from the impellers, drilling holes in the remaining vanes) was useful in track roadsters and other flathead-powered circle-track cars. With the low-pressure cooling systems of that era the mods were done to keep the agressive pumps from pushing water out of the system through the filler neck side-bib.

The notion that coolant flow restriction in the motor was necessary to allow the coolant more resident time in the radiator to give up heat makes no sense. If you stall coolant flow in the motor to allow it to spend more time in the radiator, you give it more time to absorb heat in the motor.

What the restricted outflow of hot coolant from the top of the motor does is suppress the formation of steam pockets in the heads, particularly over the combustion chambers. This is something that Leo Goosen understood way back in the '20s (and was still educating hot-shot motor builders about in the '70s!). Folks running at the top of the form in LSR racing today with flatheads understand this, and typically run cooling systems with near-zero ullage and 25-35 psi static pressure.

 

And just when I though no one was going to contribute anything else!

Thanks Mike; maybe this thread ain't done YET!

 

guys, dont let this die. i want to hear more on valve info, stainless any good? chevy valves, are they much bigger? are they worth the bother? valve guide chamfer=worthless?

 

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guys, dont let this die. i want to hear more on vavle info, stainless any good? chevy vavles, are they much bigger? are they worth the bother.

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"Z", purely by chance, Chev valves have the same stem diameter as the flathead. Which means you can use the Ford flathead valve guides and drop in Chev. valves.

The most popular Chev valve is the 1.6 inch diameter head, BUT the valve stem is a bit longer, so most builders use adjustable lifters.

Original Ford lifters didn't have any means of adjustment, so the "lash" (lifter to valve stem clearence) was done by grinding a small amount OFF the end of the valve stem.
Keep in mind Ford planned that every time someone was rebuilding an engine, that the valve seats would be ground and the valve would "drop." (meaning the lash would reduce) And the grinding of the end of the valve would be needed to re-establish lash.

With the introduction of un-leaded fuel, Stainless Steel vavles have almost become the standard.

If you are planning a "non stock" camshaft, then that's the time to switch to Chev valves (SS) and adjustable lifters. Along with the switch to the Chev valves; some intake (and exhaust) port "cleaning" will allower the larger valve to breathe.

An excellent TECH on "PORTING" is here on the HAMB that was written by Mike Bishop. (av8) Definatley worth a read!

 

so Chevy valves are about 1/8" wider across face?

 

Great post! I have a 59A complete motor I was gonna trade off but after reading all this great tech, I'm gonna build it! Thanks to everyone.

Any opinions on Sharp or Cyclone cyl. heads?

 

Hi Guys,

This post is fantastic. There must be some more tips & tech out there.

Flatdog

How bout some more blower tech. I'd like to know, for the street (max 4-5psi) just how much needs to be done to a stock flat motor. I've read that the stock pistons, cam and heads work fine in modest boost applications. Is this correct?

I was thinking that by the time you add up intake, new heads, new cam with adj. lifters etc your almost all the way to one of Joe Abbins blower kits, with the potential for alot more HP. Or is there alot more to the story?

Also, ignition - do you need to run a MSD box or will a normal aftermaket dizzy / Chev HEI / Mopar conversion do the trick?

SinisterCustom

I've heard nothing but good things about both, but this has just been opinions and these were in reference to the originals, not the modern repros.

Danny

 

Anyone have a website address for Abbin?

 

Hi AV8,

Here is Joe's website. Be warned, its pop-up city in there.

http://www.blownflathead.itgo.com/

Danny

 

road draft tube is similiar to a pcv setup ina modern v-8.
the idea is that at normal operating speed the air drawn thru tke road draft would properly ventilate the cracase thru the oil breather

 

i have a59ab , i revoved the fuel pump stand and rod and blocked off the manifold. should i shorten the pump rod and put back in? if so does it need to be supported below the manifold

 

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road draft tube is similiar to a pcv setup ina modern v-8.
the idea is that at normal operating speed the air drawn thru tke road draft would properly ventilate the cracase thru the oil breather

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Mike, that's true; at least that was the intention. Trouble is a lot of flatheads don't get driven around at "normal operating speeds" all the time. PCV's can be set to draw fumes from the crankcase while the engine at an idle and the vehicle standing still, road drafts don't.

Plugging the fuel pump rod hole. The easiest method is to insert a Welsh plug (or a threaded plug) at the top of the push rod boss just above the camshaft, then there is no need to play around with keeping the push rod in place. (or parts of one)

 

Any more??
BTTT

 

Av8 wrote:
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The best spark plug for the flatmotor is the Champion H10. If your auto parts guys can't find 'em, check the local garden supply store; the H10 is a popular lawn mower plug. [Lots of experience with other plugs in the last decade. Again, check with Fordbarn.

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Not from my own experience with this make of plug on flatmotors but I have had bad experiences with the Champions on others and I feel the manufacturer has cheapened these to point where they will foul easily.
My experience and others I have talked to seem to feel that the Autolite and NGK plugs are the best nowadays.
NGK plugs preferably...
These plugs even have a more traditional look with the larger diameter bases. Plug sizes are as follows:
Optional replacement 14mm spark plugs of similar heat are the Autolite 216 and the NGK-B6L. For later flattys.
The replacement 18mm plugs would be the Autolite 386 or the NGK-A6. For earlier flattys.

 

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Av8 wrote:
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The best spark plug for the flatmotor is the Champion H10.

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Not from my own experience.... Autolite and NGK plugs are the best nowadays.
NGK plugs preferably...
These plugs even have a more traditional look with the larger diameter bases.
Plug sizes are as follows:

Optional replacement 14mm spark plugs of similar heat are the Autolite 216 and the NGK-B6L. For later flattys.

The replacement 18mm plugs would be the Autolite 386 or the NGK-A6. For earlier flattys.

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Pete, your reply reminded me of something that flathead builders need to keep an eye on.

Between 1932 and 1937, flathead spark plugs used an 18 mm thread. (have seen a couple of early heads with chewed up threads because someone tried to force 14 mm plugs in)

To add to your list;

AC numbers:

IF YOU NEED 18 mm plugs!
C 85 - gap, .025

From here ALL PLUGS ARE 14 mm, 7/16ths inch reach. (post 1937)

HOT - to - COLD - PLUS GAP

45L - .030
47L - .030
TC45L - .030
R43L - Resistor type - .030
C43L - used in highway engines - .030

NOTE: Gaps shown are a recommended "starting point."

 

Not dead yet.

Since we're throwing around tips and tricks, here's one that was just relayed to me. Would like to know if there's any truth to it, though I don't see how it could hurt.

If running a flathead (or any engine) without hardened valve seats, should Marvel Mystery Oil or something similar be added to the gas to replace the missing lead that was in the fuel back in the day? I think the mix was something like 6oz. of Marvel Mystery Oil for every 10 gallons.

I've never experienced anything too bad with running regular unleaded gas as is. An acquaintance, who runs a Cadillac flathead in his 32, swears by it.

Thanks,

Mike

 

Hey cod liver oil does the same thing when mixed in with the gas.

Danny

 

Hey, guys, stop editing what I said! You're making me look even dumber than I am! Like I said, "Lots of experience with other plugs in the last decade" since the book was written.

BTW, glad to see good spark plug info here on the HAMB; makes us a little more self-sufficient than having to go to other boards to get it.

 

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Hey cod liver oil does the same thing when mixed in with the gas.

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So that means you do add it to your gas? I'm trying to find out if there's really any necessity for an engine w/o hardened valve seats.

 

Great Post indeed.

Another ?

I have pulled a set of Johnson lifters from a block I have. Going to use them in my Flatty build up.

They look very nice ( quite shitty pic though).
My questions is, should the surface facing the cam ble flat or slightly domed??

From what I have been able to meassure, the ones I have are flat. Even so you can see some rings on the surface. Probably from rotating?

Enlighten me, fellas

Paul

 

Red's Headers catalog says they are to be domed, and he gives the radius which I don't have right now. Definitely not flat or cone shaped.

You could probably get yours reground and hardened.


- alchemy

 

Thanks Alchemy

I'll look into it. I may have an ex of his catalogs at home.

Paul

 

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Red's Headers catalog says they are to be domed.- alchemy

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Red Hamilton (Red's Headers) did/does do reconditioning on lifters.

However when I spoke to him a while ago, he indicated that with the new reproducton "adjustable lifters" now available, the cost of new vs. reconditioned is a bit of a "toss up."

Plus what do you do if one (or more) can't be reconditioned?? (worn past acceptable limits)

New; postage ONE WAY, sending to him for reconditioning; postage TWO WAYS.

 

i think your right, i heard 96'

i have another question, what size is the bore of a flathead with out sleeves = sleeves removed.

 

thanks

 

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i have another question, what size is the bore of a flathead with out sleeves = sleeves removed.

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"Z", it would depend on the dia. of the sleeves that were used to fix the problem. (cracked wall?) If I understand what your asking.

An engine (block) that has a sleeve(s) probably would not be useable if the sleeve(s) were removed.