Technical MOTOR, Flathead Manifold & Head Reviews

Hi All,

I was wondering if anyone here could offer thier opinions on the various manifolds and heads they have used. I'm looking around at some but I wouldnt know whats good and whats not. If anyone wants to add heads and cams to their review, go for it.

I know that how it performs is related to the whole package, so if you want to give some info on your setup, i would really appreciate it.

Danny

 

How about at least telling us what you are looking to build.

Also are you loaded with money so you want only the best?

 

IF you get another reply from 286merc with his opinions on choices, I would take it to heart, just like I have. I listened to him and am gonna run stock EAB heads, a merc manifold with an autolite or rochester 2 bbl carb for heads and manifold. I don't want to go into the rest, but definitely listen to everything he says and you will have a NICE flatty.
Mike

 

thats right..listen to the man-he knows his stuff.....

 

Hi 286,

Sorry I should have been more specific in what I was looking for.

At the moment I have a stock 8ba mated up to a '39 three speed ******. the motor at the moment seems to run fine, but being young and silly im looking to hop it up.

to answer your question, no i dont have alot of money to spend. but at the same time, i want to do it right hopefully the first time. at some stage the engine will go in for a full rebuild, but right now, im looking for some bolt on parts that i can again use later on.

i dont want a full race mill, as i use this car on the street all the time. full ecconomy isnt super important but if its going to get 6MPG i dont want it. just want some reliable "****e" added to the car hopefull added with some second hand speed goodies i can get at swapmeets etc.

thanks for your reply, its most appreciated.

danny



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How about at least telling us what you are looking to build.

Also are you loaded with money so you want only the best?


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i would agree...i've totally learned and went by what 286 has said,except,i went with finned heads for the overall look....mine's not a race car

 

Thanks for the nice comments; now you're all gonna make me cry

OK, as Flat 6 said, using 52-4 (in Aussie land) EAB heads and any 49-54 Merc flathead intake with the mentioned carb you will be able to feel a small boost. Give the heads about a .050-.060 cut for a bit more compression. Add duals for the sound. This wont look like a hot rod but is the 1st step while s****ing up the money. Dont know your driving style but the mpg should actually be a hair better than what you do now.

Aluminum heads are for looks only at this point. Unless you get into some serious block and cam work they will do very little for the cost involved.

Ignition ****s on a stocker, I prefer the Mopar electronic conversion as per your own Mike Davidson. Simple and bullet proof.

If it was my engine I would do the following:

EAB heads cut .050
Schneider 270F/350 cam, just right for stock displacement.
Adjustable tappets
Valve job
Wide spaced dual intake with matched casting ID 94 carbs
Headers and gl***packs
Mopar ignition
Figure on a 40-50 hp boost. All can be done at home except for the head milling and dizzy machining.

Since the heads are off it is fairly simple and a good time to do the cam and valves. You can clean up the heads, grind off all the markings and paint a contrasting color to the block.
Stock and aftermarket heads often suffer from a wide variation in chamber size. CC and try and match within 1/2 cc or so; simple enough for a home project.

Edelbrock and Offenhauser both make a decent head and are in current production. If swap meet shopping it is a gamble what you are buying as they may have already been cut too many times, warped or corroded water pasages. All the more better if you have someone along who knows his ****.

Pretty hard to mess up a swap meet intake tho, and virtually any brand will do OK. Just look it over carefully for port and bolt hole damage.

With the 286 in my 53 Vicky I get 11-13 mpg but Im not gentle with the pedal, I built it to have fun and it has held together for around 65K miles so far.
OTOH I get 14-15 out of a 375 hp 396 Chebby!

Sounds like a fun project, keep us posted.

Oh, almost forgot. You will now be able to put some serious hurt on that 39 ******, treat it gentle.

 

286,

Thanks for the feedback - sounds great.

Currently the 8BA is sitting in my AV8 roadster. Its my first rod and I'm loving every second of it.Please excuse the late model *cough* radials *cough*. Its sacriligious (sp?) on a highboy according to most of the hamb! Performance of the stocker is good and its quick enough to get me into trouble, and the sound of the engine makes up for any *** whiping I get by late model imports.

I was planning on using a adapted chev dizzy with electronic ignition as they are easy to get over here locally but I will look into the Mopar conversion. Rat******* here on the hamb is going to run one. The car is running straight pipes at the moment so saves on headers and gl*** packs

Thanks for your tips on everything, you've helped out alot. My initial thoughts were ignition, then dual manifold and 94's, then heads. Sounds like I was on the right track. I wanted something I could ****e up now without tearing it apart fully. I'll leave that for my other 8ba which i want to treat to a full rebuild.

As far as new Vs Second hand, I'd go with second hand intake but will stay away from second hand heads. Cory, another hamb guy has been very helpful with knowledge and I will end up getting all of my gear through him. Just didnt want to get a ****y intake, but from the sounds of things, most are a much of a muchness, especialy at this level of output.

On a side note, Corey was wondering about the L100 cams. I know Rat******* inquired about them in a prev post but did you have any more information on them?

I've heard the '39 boxes can be fragile, so I'm treating her very kindly. I dont mind paying for go faster goodies, hate paying for repairs!!!

Danny

ps. just an idea, there was some great posts a while in the techomatic on 305 chevies, SB mopar etc. did you want to do one for late flatheads? Be really cool to have some concrete facts on these engines. Woudl love to have a comparison with HP/Torque output as stock, with ignition then intake, heads, cam etc. Take some of the guess work out of this.

 

The Litterio L100 has been around since the 50's. Some like it but I think it is a little too much for a 239.

Schnieder OTOH has a wide selection to fit just about anything AND they understand computer designs also.

Im not an Isky fan either primarily since they still think you have to run special springs. That thinking went away 20 years ago.

Nothing wrong with the Chevy HEI, I did a few of those before learning about the Mopar which looks a LOT better!

 

286,

I think the flattie the L100 might be going into will be stroked and bored. Im not sure of the total displacement though. I'll p*** on the info. much appreciated. i've also heard good things about the schneider cams.

Can i convince you to do the technomatic article?

Danny

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The Litterio L100 has been around since the 50's. Some like it but I think it is a little too much for a 239.

Schnieder OTOH has a wide selection to fit just about anything AND they understand computer designs also.

Im not an Isky fan either primarily since they still think you have to run special springs. That thinking went away 20 years ago.

Nothing wrong with the Chevy HEI, I did a few of those before learning about the Mopar which looks a LOT better!



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spose I should chime in here as I have put some ideas into Psycho's head.

Hello 286, know you from a few other flathead pages.


Basically I said that the best use of money and time to get value/performance for $$$ would be to use "bolt" on parts that can be swapped over to another engine.

ie manifold, dizzy etc. as once you have paid for these they can be swaped to the new engine with little to no trouble.

Also being what the flattie is like some good spark is required and to up the performance as the floyd clymer book says you get good bang for your buck with a dual intake.

To go much further with a stock engine requires engine out and car off the road, then as per usual it would probably end up being a full rebuild.

I think Psycho was chasing the ins and outs as far as what if any intake is better than another?

As for the dizzy, the conversion he is talking about is a local made up dizzy using local "holden" ( Aussie GM body) and XD Falcon ( yep we still make these things ) cap and rotor.

Hard for you guys to understand , but a Mallory is costly in the first place over here ( conversion rate isnt the best ) and parts availability isnt great as we would have to order and wait for caps rotor ****ons etc.

( theres and XD falcon in every wrecking yard from Kaniva to Darwin)

I'm running a similar set up on my engine, have a fenton 2x2 and electronic dizzy, made a big difference to the engines performance and bang for the buck was about the best you can get.

I'm running 94's that I have built ( have paid close attention to your articles over the years on these carbs.)

hope that adds some insight

Flatoz

 

Hey,

Yes blame FlatOz, its all his fault. if i hadnt come over and seen all his lux speed goodies I wouldnt be trying to chase my tail figuring out what to get.

Keep the info comming please.

Danny

 

Hey,

Any other seasoned flatmotor guys have anytyhing to add?

Danny

 

I am learning about flatheads as well. I bought these books and highly recommend them. Buy them before you spend a cent on anything else. I have them linked to Amazon, but try locally first or www.thehotrodcompany.com (a HAMBer's site)

How to Build a Flathead Ford V8, McNicholl

Complete Flathead Ford V8, Ceridono & Tex Smith

Flathead Ford V8 Builder's Handbook, Oddo

 

What are these mallory ignitions like? Are the TALL manifolds any better or worse than short ones? I really like the looks of the tall ones and think I may buy one and sell this one.. I also have an 11in aluminum clutch is it worth installing? Thank You... Jason...

 

Mallory has two distributors - magnetic breakerless & unilite. Some of them (I think Unilite) doesn't like generators according to some people. I've run Unilites in several engines & really like them. They sell a surge protector for about $35 - probably well worth it if it saves your $91 module...

I've heard the tall intkes work reasonably well on the street. I've got a Thickston PM-7 that I'm going to put on my 40 eventually, but right now, I can't tell you

As far as an aluminum flywheel (I ***ume that's what you meant), depending on how heavy your car is, you may not like it on the street. You may be better off shaving a few pounds of a cast-iron stocker...

 

Been a bit busy today.

As far as getting anything in the Tech files you have to be one of the annointed, I guess I dont fit that mold.

Sounds like you are on the right track. I figured the Mopar dizzy was popular down there cuz of Mike Davidsons book. Use whatever works. My own experience has shown a factory electronic dizzy is a whole lot less prone to failure than aftermarkets and bolt in stuff.

Im going to have dyno time available in March and there are several flattie intake setups I want to test. That includes various carb spacers up to 4" tall. The one thing I wanted most of all was a 4 carb intake that I could convert to dual quads. Couldnt find one in my price range tho. The high Thickstun is supposed to be one of the best but I haven't seen data across the rpm spectrum. I hope the tall spacers will be a decent alternative.

FlatOz, I remember them Falcons when I spent a bit over 6 months Down Under in 84-85. Hi performance iron was everywhere and I got to every one of your states including Tasmania. Doing a networking project between Telecom Australia and your gov't welfare dept kept me moving around.

One step ahead of jealous husbands and boyfriends also!

 

286,

would love to see that dyno stuff. I have been saying to psycho about the fact that from what I can see, most of the info on intakes is hearsay.

I think I offended one guy on another flathead forum your a part of when he suggested that the fenton superduals were ****, that I better change mine back to a single as he was so convincing.

Seems that no one has hard data that proves ( flow bench readings , dyno etc ) if one intake is really better than another.

I do realise that the variables here are enormous, but if you can pull off some dyno tests, well that at least give some basic info on what results can be obtained on an engine built like X.

I dont know why people like to rubish one intake over another without having run one.

Even with the Thickstun, is the moniker of a great street intake proven with hard data?

I know I read somewhere that ( I think it was edelbrock ) put one on one of his race cars early in the peice and won that particular meet, from then on they were seen as the intake to have. Is this what has caused the hype?

Dont get me wrong , I reckon they are about the sweetest looking intake you can get, but it would be nice to have some hard data on what , does what.

them ol' falcons. still make em we do with nice high reving V8s and a real gutys turbo inline 6 which is a 8 eater off the line.

Got a good old falcon ute myself, love the old girl

 

FlatOZ, don't confuse a RACING manifold with a good STREET manifold.

What flow the most at full throttle is rarely the best choice for someone that wants some beans going from light to light with a smattering of highway miles.

 

Ernie's comment about the Unilite not liking a generator got me thinking. Any thoughts as is an MSD dizzy might be adversly affected by a generator. I'll call MSD tomorrow on this, but are interested to hear what you guys have to say!

 

No confusion Modernbeat, understand the difference, I have looked into quite a few , and have a few intakes too.

Again, as I said, I would like to see some hard data , not just old time wives tales.

I'm not saying anyone is better than the other, just like to be methodical. I'm one of those annoying ******s that if someone tells me this is the best , I want to know why.

If they give me a good plausable explaination, with data, or unrefutable facts then I'm happy.

but alot of the time the answer you get is 'so and so says so'

which doesnt always have alot of credibility. I know you visit some of the flathead forums, and people will regale tales of what experts have told them to do with carbs.

same with intakes, and as your suggesting , some set ups will work better in some situations.

 

Funny you mention the Fenton Oz, that dual is what Ive had on my 286 for 5 years. Subjectively it pulls fine thru the gears with a pair of ECG Y Block 94's.
Would it be as good as some others? Dunno and I dont care, Im not racing the lead sled.

The engines I build for others have been using the run of the mill Offy and Edelbrocks, all flavors since that is what the buyers want.

I dont have many intakes to experiment with. What I have been doing is making my own flat stock mods to a pair of Offy duals; sort of a buiding block concept so different things can be easily tried.
With the dyno time I want to see what really is the effect of various hi riser styles. Last time I ran a modified Offy Super Dual with a pair of 4 bolt 2300 carbs for 600 cfm on a 276; it was still going up at 5400 rpm. But it wasnt streetable with solid linkage.
What I really hope to get working is a pair of WCFB's. Im fast becoming a believer that the much quoted cfm formulas are pure BS for an extensively reworked flathead.

BTW, the stock 8BA intake is not a bad design, Im going to try cutting up one of those soon also. The main reason I got the 2nd Henrob is to do aluminum and cast iron work.

Anybody want to do direct port with 8 motorcycle carbs?

 

hey 286,

seems we might think a little similar ( or off the beatten path)

I have been playing with 4" spacers on mine, I am getting a little bit of bogging down on take off, and its running a little rich, but its very drivable and gives great looks, milage and performance.

This is on a pretty much stock engine. ( which is why I think I am having some bogging down) I havent gone as far as using the vac gauge to do readings while driving, but have read your articles and am planning on doing so soon ( when I get the 50 other jobs done)

I have also made 3" spacers and will be tooling up to cast these in alloy some time soon.

 

Oh yer thats the dizzy that I was talking about.

scuze the alternator, need it for good headlights as I dont mind driving distances in the dark

and as for the thermo, well, gotta keep a flathead cool

 

What is the advantage of carb spacers -- increased fuel/air velocity?

What are the disadvantages of carb spacers?

 

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Ernie's comment about the Unilite not liking a generator got me thinking. Any thoughts as is an MSD dizzy might be adversly affected by a generator. I'll call MSD tomorrow on this, but are interested to hear what you guys have to say!


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I've heard they're not nearly as sensitive as the Unilite, but have not run one myself...curious to see what MSD says.

 

I'll chime in with what I've heard about intakes and the MSD dizzys...

I talked to Jerry Jobe about this quite a bit and I think you might want to give him a call FlatOZ. He has tried many intakes on his dyno. I think the critical point with any test would be ensuring the carbs were the same form intake to intake and Jerry has done that I believe. All in all I don't think there is that much of a difference but he did say that you definately need the heat risers to ensure a good active mixture. He has dozens of different intakes all set up and ready to go also so he might have some good input and even if he doesn't have an actual graph or chart for you to look at, you could take his opinion to the bank.

He also has some things to say about distributers. He likes the MSD's a lot. He says no electronic dizzy likes generators but MSD does it's best to compensate for voltage spikes. I had him modify my stock 49-53 dizzy (yes they can work just fine) for a more traditional look. I figured with this setup I can fire the MSD box just fine (Saving points and with an MSD box, dual points aren't necessary) with it or run with just the dizzy in the event of a failier. That way I have a vacuum curved (MSD's wasn't out yet) dizzy that looks the part.

 

Phil,

Does your setup present any issues with running dual 48's? Maybe I'm confusing myself but isnt there a vac***m issue with dual 48's that the stock dizzy cant handle?

Danny

 

Yeah, I shoulda said I'm running dual 94's. If 0ne of the 48s has the vacuum port, you should be fine. I'm running a pretty wild cam too and still should be fine. The advance curve can be modified with springs just like more modern dizzys.

 

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I've heard they're not nearly as sensitive as the Unilite, but have not run one myself...curious to see what MSD says.



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Believe it or not... MSD was of no help at all. The guy I talked to had no clue about the flathead dizzy. He asked outloud if anyone could help... and didn't get a response!!He basically said that distributor needs an ignition box to run it, and those work fine with a generator. Nice to know that help is there when you need it...

...at least I have you guys!