No, they wouldn't be....but that shit is everywhere these days, and I don't trust anyone who even dabbles in it to do ANYTHING for me.
I'm so screwed. My Builder Rick, and I joked about my egine guy being a meth head.. I'm soooo screwed...
My 900hp 383 SBC cost me over 10-12k to build (everything was bought new, motor was built to last saldy i sold it and it was put in a car the went into 8's..just talked to the guy who did a refresh on on it last week over 5 years after it was built) my 350hp LT1 N/A 500+ HP (nitrous) cost me around 1.5k to build (traded, and used spare parts) My old 400 SBC cost me around 700 for the short block, and then cost me around 2500 to do a RPM package, carb, ect.. Ran 12.5s all day great motor until I had a bolt come loose in my torque converter that cracked the block. I'm guessing around 300-325hp I also bought and ls1 which was rated at around 350hp for 1000$ The next motor I'm planning on building is an LQ9 (very OT for this forum) You can get about 650hp out of them for around 5k-6k I've priced out a few big block setups over the years but haven't built one yet. If you are looking for a good engine builder in LA http://www.speedomotive.com/ (edited wrong link) without a doubt, I worked with them when I was building my blower motor. They have a ton of great custom "crate" motors, or you can get anything from short blocks, to just rotating assembly. If I will ever build another "new" motor I plan on going with a short block from them. Once you decide on CI, Stroke, compression and rod length.. Your pretty much set.. The real magic comes in setting up your top end (head, cams, ect..)
I think that I would spend a little more money to have someone else at least look it over good. That may at least save you the expense of ruining good parts because of a missed detail during the assembly. You may have overpaid once, but for a little bit more, you could save yourself from paying twice. Good luck In my case, I never found one of the connecting rod nuts, and if it wasn't ever there, I have no idea how that engine lasted 1500 miles, with a 1/8 mile dragstrip pass or 2 thrown in for good measure......
I have a standard bore 283 sitting in my shed. And a set of .030 over 11:1 pistons, on rods. And a set of Fuelie heads. And a set of PowerPak heads. And a nice aftermarket intake. And several cams. And several carbs. It would cost me over $1k to build this engine, just for machine work and gaskets...I can buy a running 350 any day on Craigslist for under $500. I have a complete, but disassembled 348 sitting in my shed too. I don't think I could do an economy build on that one for under 5K. Last engine I had done for myself due to lack of time i regretted. I supplied most of the parts myself since I was able to get them at wholesale cost, and price was still over $2600 out the door at the machine shop. Had a variety of issues with it. Still dealing with some of them 5 years later due to lack of funds to replace parts. Had the heads off 3-4 times within 500 miles. It takes me far longer to assemble an engine than a machine shop does. But I've had too many problems in the past with things that haven't been checked. If you're looking to buy a generic 383, be told it has a certain HP rating and drive it daily it's fine. When you get to where you're testing that power through racing and pushing every component until something breaks, then it becomes critical. That's when the dollars start to really climb. Devin
In simple terms we all have different budgets and way different ideas on what it takes to build engines. Then there is a huge difference between putting together an engine with a low budget but quality parts engine kit and going out and selecting each piece in the engine as the best example of that component one can find. I haven't priced machine work in a long time but either of the shops that I go to when I need work I can't do myself done would probably charge somewhere between 5 and 6 hundred to do what could be standard machine work on a small block Chev, Mopar or Ford that could be expected to easily go 150K with the right parts. That would include cleaning and boring the block, installing cam bearings and soft plugs, turning the crank resize the rods and a full valve job on the heads. Either of those two machinists can easily put a lot more time and money in an engine that has to be set up for an all out race motor. Parts costs would be what you were willing to spend and where you bought them and the deal you got. I have a buddy who can manage to spend 20% more than I or my other buddy do on exactly the same parts and think he got the better deal. Different areas of the country often have vastly different labor rates for shops that do machine work on engines and I have found that even different areas of this state have different pricing structures or policies. While I can usually buy at Jobber here locally or get a pretty good deal I usually get hit full list price on parts when I need something when I am in the Seattle area. And I can fully guarantee that a parts man can make you think you are really getting a deal on a part while you may be paying way over normal retail for the exact same part at another parts house a mile away. The crate motor thing works for a lot of guys simply because they don't have ready access to a quality machine shop or engine builder and some just don't want to spend the time to take a number and get in line and wait for the local engine builder to get to their engine.
Tony, your in L.A. check out M&R engines in Glendale. All those guys do is build stroker motors. Many of our machine shops are now history in Montana. I actually felt funny buying my first crate short block, but not for long. There remains for me no mystery whatsoever in the parts in that engine, and what M&R sent me I was pretty pleased with.
550 hp will run around $4500 if the customer already owns the block and crank assembly. A premium version can approach $6500 . 450 hp will be arouind $3500 250 hp, dont bother me that is too boring. Hard to get a stock V8 down to that level. ie 340 mopar is 275 stock. 440 375hp. 383 335HP 350 chev in mild trim 350 HP So if we just say stock rebuild around 2500 if the customer has all the cores to start with (like a complete motor. ) just finished an engine for a fellow. It took 3 weeks start to finish with much time waiting for parts. It was a 440 mopar. Used KB 237 pistons. Stock rods resized with HP perf bolts. block 030" over a real good set of perf rings. roller chain and grears, Special grind hydraulic cam with lifters. Windage tray and hemi oil pan and hemi 1/2 inch oil pickup. I had him buy a set of new aftermaret heads (under $1000) as they flow well, come with big valves , springs retianers etc etc. You now save nothing doing the old set unless it is just a straight forward rebuild . I charged him $2500 in total and he had another $300 in pieces he had to buy that he did not have from this engine as he got smoked in the deal when he bought it. he bought the heads as well. Add $500 for machine work (He had the block bored where he lives by a good shop to my specs and decked with new cam bearings)and you get $4200. He bought the intake and carb i speced out and i dont know what that cost him but you can include some for that if you wish. This engine as done will be over 510 HP and will be very streetable running on 92 or better pump gas. Max RPM for power will be 6000 RPM although it will not hurt its self even if it gets squeezed to 6500. (a cam change will get it to about the 550HP mark or maybe just above but is will no longer be real streetable although cam cost will be exactly the same. )I have built several of these for people and cost is often in the end right about this area. A 400HP to 450HP 360 mopar build runns about $3500. A straight rebuild is usually by the time youre done everything around $2500. To me a crate motor is expensive. Mostly you are paying to put the responsibilty somewhere else. Usually it can be hand built for less and often can or should be a better motor. Yes I recently (2 last fall and 1 last month) also did 3 SBCs but dont tell anyone. I have a reputaion as a only mopar guy. Cost is not all that different in the end. Since i am retired i charge more than I would have before since they are eating into my play time.I tell them exactly that up front. Wish i had earleir in life. No one seems to mind. I now work only for old friends or if the project is really interesting and there are no arguements about what I pick and use.(Ie "well i taked to Tim --- and HE said bla bla" Which is answered by "here is you motor take it to Tim --- ") Don too soon old, too late Schmart I just realized writing this even though "I dont do motors anymore "I have done 3 this year so far and have promised a BBC yet to do next month. I must be nuts! No wonder i cant get any of my own stuff done!
Last year built a 350 chevy with roller tappet compcam , roller rockers, new or rebuilt everything on out side of engine including factory TBI and it was about $4000 for a stock 93 Surburban. This winter building a 306 Ford , roller cam, roller rockers, GT40 steel heads, 3-2 intake ect and I expect to have 5-$6000 for about 350HP. Induction system is good for a grand alone. If I want to build a strocker it would add $2000 to the build. hope this helps
Tony79dr; Parts machine work, you do the rest, a generic stock SBC or L6 will run you less than $1500. A motor overhauled, adding the labor, will cost twice that or more. Besides if somebody else does it you don’t know what shortcuts were taken. If you do it yourself, you know. Build your own; I overhauled my first car motor with no more aid than the overhaul manualI went in cold. 1960, Didn’t have the internet, Did it in a dirt floor garage. Nowadays, there’s really no excuse to screw it up. Enlist a mentor, have him stop by before you start, visualize the sequence of disassembly and do it in steps. A mentor will also have some of the tools you need for assembly, ring compressor and the like. With three of four visits from a mentor, you’ll have a pile of parts ready to haul off for machining and know how it’s going back together. Allready. I'm currently guiding a guy through his first overhaul. You will need a motor stand. I just picked up another good used one on Craigs list for $30, they sell new for well over a hundred........... With diligence at every turn of a thread, use a steady hand, don‘t do anything without first finding out the why’s and wherefore’s of each action. It ain’t rocket science. You can get a heads up on what to expect on assembly during the disassembly. Get a motor stand and take the motor apart yourself, taking time to take notes and reason out everything as you do that. Note what direction components are aimed, rod and main bearing cap positioning and orientation, etc. You can farm out the machine work; even send parts to different people or shops. Complete overhaul parts/gaskess kit will run you less than four hundred (new cam, pistons, rings, rod and main bearings, cam bearings, timing gear/chain, oil pump and gaskets) Buy that after you know what size the cylinder holes and crankshaft journals will be. Doing an overhaul is about four different steps. Any motor overhaul manual has step by step procedures for this. After disassembly; 1)Block; Have it tanked, then piston holes bored for next practical oversize piston size, new cam bearings, and check/mill deck if necessary to assure head will fit snug. 2)Rotating assembly. Have the crankshaft reground to the next practical undersize dimensions. Have rods checked for alignment and true fit, and pistons fit to rods. Have the machinist that checks/aligns the connecting rods do that, you can put the rings on when you assemble the motor. 3(Head. Take it a machine shop ask for a basic valve job, which will include surfacing to match flat surface of block. 4)Bolt on stuff. Have fun assembling it.
What RPM range do plan on running these motors ? That will determine which parts to buy, from intakes , pistons, cam, lifters, rods, cranks, bolts, etc.. What is your budget? You can go naturally aspirated, forced induction, nitrous oxide, etc.?What is the weight of your vehicle, gear ratio, final drive ratio, etc.? I can get into some specifics like: deck height, static CR\ dynamic CR,duration of cam, cylinder bleed off,quench space,balancing rotating parts, balancing reciprocating parts, and the list and price goes on and on. Sorry, I can't help you with out knowing these things, zrxlover.
I'll offer a scenario; On one's first motor, especially if DIY, start with a bone stock running assembly. First; do a 'bearing and ring' job. Save the upgrades for the evolution of skills/knowledge/need. Building the ultimate motor for one's tastes just isn't practical on the first shot. Of couse if one is set on dreaming, but not doing...........................
Tony, you sure said some stupid ass shit,all I suggested was learn to do the work yourself ,no need for all the name calling,alot of guys farm the work out on there cars because they don"t have a machine shop ,or paint booth ,not a damn thing wrong with that,but just buying a finished car leaves you scratching your head when something tears up because you don"t know the way everything was built and parts used,ain"t a better feeling than firing an engine for the first time that you were a part of building,And as far as the remarks towards me.Thats uncalled for.
$200-400 cool motor, like a flathead or a olds rocket, or a 331 caddy. $4000..... some lame ass pussy shit.
contact VANDY on here!! I did and i couldnt be happier!! And the price is unbeatable!! He's in sunland!! My SBC in my chevy is so bitchin and very reliable!
I know this is meaningless....354 iron 56 hemi with all the good stuff for a AA/FD, 1500 hp, uses 1 gallon of 80% Nitro/minute idling, 120+ decipals loud is $20,000-$25,000 not including chrome stuff. Why have a belly button motor ? Impress your neighbors !
H-rod, If I can do it, so can you. I'm a year into the project, and my son and I are having a blast. No, we don't do everything ourselves... (I joke I'm putting my machinist's grankids thru college) but we do what we can, ask questions of the gurus, and share what we have learned with the next guys coming along. Have a good run of it, and be proud of something you did yourself. That said - if you want to stay under budget, don't try rebuilding a one year only Mopar... it's expensive and frustrating trying to find parts, but rewarding when you get it all together (even if you break a few pieces). Listen to the guys that will help, and ignore the grumbly haters.
Wolf Hound, Thanks..... But I could never try and build it in the near future. Its one thing to have some mechanical skills, experience, and a complete different thing when you've neve touched a motor, or anything mechanical on a car. I would rather do body work, than mess with an engine... With that said here;s a picture of my motor.. I havent had the chance to get the build sheet, but I iwl this week and I'll post what it's got so you guys can tell me what you think.......
OK. I made it to the end of the thread and found out some prices, specs, some B.S. and other here-and-there's. All of which helpful to some degree. No matter what engine you want or the cost...what purpose will it serve? You can pay an obscene amount of scratch to have an outrageous mill, but if you're just headed to the Skinny's what's the hub-bub? Horses belong at the track! Nothing more foolish than a guy who pulls his street freak into the local cruise-in every week but never makes a pass down the 1320. For the price of some engines you could just build two cruisers and keep the hoods shut. None of this aimed at the OP, just some general observation of car shows and such. What I'm getting at is this. I bought my '53 Ford. It already had an SBC w/2bbl in it. I decided to step up to a 4bbl but when I pulled the intake it looked like someone vomitted a semi-dry brownie mix an inch thick all over the inside. Rather than rebuild, I found a local circle tracker that had a fresh warm build that he sold me for $800. I'm happy because it runs better than what I had. I don't expect to win Indy. I expect to get from A to B. The price reflects that. I know you want the best for what you pay for but asking a room full of guys just gets you a little past square one. I would find two or three more local engine builders and ask them the cost of the exact same specs. Then you choose how you want it done, either the soonest, cheapest, or best...and with engines it's often only one of those. Good Luck if you haven't already found what you want, B.M.
OK, somebody has to chime in on behalf of the low buck cheap skate type guys...........like me. You don't need Pro Modified parts for a street engine. High end fasteners, H-beam rods, etc are a waste of money for a 400Hp driver (unless you like to yack about all the cool shit in your engine). Many many muscle car engines out of the 60's made 350-400 Hp and ran for 100,000+ miles. Do a stock rebuild and the engine is once again good for 100,000 miles. I believe you can do 400 Hp for $2500 if you watch your pennies. A few years back I built a 400Hp 429 Ford for under 2K. 28,000 miles and several dozen drag strip passes and it never skipped a beat.
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