*MrModelT and Powerwagonmaniac build a T speedster in 6 months!*

Those pictures of your parents are so cool Chris, Karen looks so lovely. LOVE that dress! You guys definitely gotta get that White back together.

 

Mrs. Model T and I feel exactly the same about this! I really enjoy those photos, and of course I can't wait to see that Mighty White back together!!!

 

*UPDATE*
More Fun With Carburetors..

Chris and I played around with getting the Holly 94 2-barrel cleaned back up and reinstalled on the "Special" yesterday. The 94 I had rebuilt had become choked with sediment and dirt...some from the tank and some from the lack of air filter. After we cleaned it up and got installed, still had some flooding issues which we think is due to too much fuel pressure. We have a regulator on order.

Her are some photos from yesterday captured by Mrs. Model T







..talking to the parts guy..



..making hood hinges...



More to come...
​

 

Clayton and Chris, The Speedster is getting closer to the finish line. Chris was looking very intent as he worked on the carburetor. Bet the short list is getting shorter as you complete each weekend. Great time the two of you have spent in memory of Chris's Dad. Bet he would be smiling to the max !

Dave

 

He sure was intent, these boys have been downright grumpy with that carburetor, She's been a real troublemaker. Should have the part by Friday though, just in time! Yay! Hopefully he can make some good progress this weekend

 

Julia, Make sure you are never around when I am working a tough problem. Usually it's my arthritis not letting me get in the right position to start a nut or not being able to find the right wrench, etc etc . . .
Chris and Clayton are probably pros with no cussing or throwing of fits . . .

Dave

 

Hey Julia and Clayton,

Thanks for the pressure regulator!!!! I sure appreciate the help,thank you very much!!! Hopefully we can can get this grouchy beast started!!

Dave,

I have used my cuss words around this thing when stuff hasn't gone right and believe me some time it feels like I am taking 1 step forward and 3 backward. I also feel for you and the arthritis, my shoulder is still bothering me and some times I hurt to the point I have to walk away and do something else.

Well, I start drilling the hood hinges tomorrow night. Jim is going to hopefully come over first of the week and Cleeco the pattern hood together so I can have the new one made of steel before too long. need to find some one to do louvers for me...

I also figured how adapt a 3 wire 70's Mopar alternator up to charge my battery.Saturday I'll will start making brackets for it and wiring it. Will also be plumbing in the fuel pressure regulator from Julia and Clayton and start this thing without problems hopefully. It's been quite a busy weekend beginning of the new week for me on the "Special".

 

Awe you bet Chris, I know it's been driving you nuts for a while...happy to contribute in some small way to the project.

 

Hee hee...they are usually pretty well behaved with the cuss words, but they do tend to squabble like a married couple sometimes

Sorry boys!

 

Don't apologize...It's true I can take that like a man and admit that we do have the occasional squabble some times..

 

Clayton, Now tell the truth. I know that everyone goes off once in a while. I can almost feel that you and Chris take it in stride. Then you start back and it all falls together. Sounds like a good fairy tale . . . . Yah, that's the one !
Oh, just went a couple three rounds with my new alarm system for the garage. Even dropped to calling the alarm company ! Young lady was very helpful and helped me reset the system. It worked, I will just keep a wary eye on it.

Dave

 

Yeah that "Sorry" was more along the lines of "Sorry I also hid your favorite ugly blazer from the 80's deep in the closet so you can't find it" apology (I'm kidding, but tempting...lol)

You both work really well together, despite the squabbling I find it very interesting to watch your dynamics when figuring out problems with the Special. You both have a good balance, supporting each other in areas that the other may not a be as strong in.

 

Oh of course we do...then we hash it over and work it out as a team. Bill also had his "moments" too I know that he got so mad at the '19 T touring once that hammered the fender with his fist and put a big dent in it and cracked the paint....I don't remember the circumstances behind the story, Chris would though..

Glad to hear about the alarm, though it would be more comforting it was more reliable ...

Oh.....I see how it is That jacket might be a little dated, but it can't be THAT bad?

I agree, that is why we work great as a team

 

Clayton

This may be a question you have addressed earlier but was wondering why you didn't use the same rear axle lowering hardware that your friend Chris used on his speedster.

Kume

 

You mean on my '26 roadster?

The rear axle lowering method seen here on the "Special" was actually copied from my car originally. While this method did work, it did have some axle/frame interference issues. To correct this, I completely redesigned the rear suspension on my roadster to fit within the specs of the current axle location and drive shaft length while adding some ride height.

This same new method will also be applied to the "Special" after the kinks have been worked out using my car as a test bed.

 

My apologies Clayton. I mistakenly posted my question on the wrong thread. I meant on your 26 Roadster . I note Chris has traditional brackets on his speedster to raise the rear cross member. I am wanting to lower my 26 Roadster and am wondering whether it is best to modify (Z) the frame, use lowering brackets like Chris's speedster (photos attached) or modify suspension set up as you are doing now. I am not trying to drop it a great deal as I would like to keep my roadster body as original as possible and avoid having cut outs in the wheel arches. I presume all methods have clearance issues either for axle to chassis or axle to body. Am new to T's so again apologies if these questions are a tad naive.

 

No need to apologize.

There are many different ways to lower a T. I wanted to keep the frame flat and uncut because I see the "Z" lowering brackets as a potential weak point and I didn't want the rear cross member intruding into the turtle deck area.....and I wanted to do something different and get the car low as possible without cutting the frame

The major potential drawback to this style is that the spring mounting points have to be moved ahead of the axle, which pushes the axle backwards...lengthening the WB. This did not come into play on my car because I added the Chicago O.D. which requires the drive shaft to be shortened anyway. On a Stock T with no O.D. unit, the drive shaft would now be too short requiring A: the frame to be shortened B: the engine moved back in the frame C: add a second cross member forward of the original rear cross member to hold the spring in order to compensate.

The method that Chris used on his original speedster frame is a more common way of lowering a T and it does keep the axle in the same location (front to back) as it was originally (especially important with a stock drive train), but would need some modification work to the rear of the body to allow clearance of the rear cross member.

You wouldn't have to add wheel well cut outs in either of these scenarios, but the Turtle deck floor would have to be modified if you "Z"-ed the frame. You could always do reverse-eye main leafs and a drop axle, that would drop it a bit and is virtually mod-free...its all bolt on stuff...

What year roadster do you have?

 

Thanks Clayton - that is most helpful. I have always wondered how you managed the extended wheel base on your T. I guess you have gained some 6 inches or more with front axle forward and rear axle back. I will have to determine how much boot space I will lose with 'Chris style' brackets as I think it is the easiest option for me and in keeping with mods of the era, and particularly in light of the wheel base issues you have mentioned. I am not sure if my roadster is a 26 or 27 (how do I tell). It is a recent purchase after several years of searching, dead end leads and lost auctions so am rather keen to get stuck in. It will be as traditional as I can manage with all pre 1930s parts.

 

A small "Z" drop to the rear frame and a 2" drop axle with a reverse-eye mail leaf up front would drop it a total of 3"...would look great too

For the most part, the '26 and '27 roadsters are very much the same....but there are minor differences between the two years.

If your car has a bar between the headlights as seen below..it is a 1927 Model:



..No headlight bar means a 1926 Model:


The more subtle differences are:

The 1926 Models have 4 rivets through the firewall for the early style gas tank anti rattle straps...


The '26 doors also differ from the '27 doors in that the stamped holes on the inside of the door are larger and spaced differently on the '27 models.

The holes on the '26 doors are smaller and closer together:

1926 Model:


1927 Model:



...also wood spoke 21" wheels were standard in 1926 and the wire wheels were optional. In 1927, the wire wheels became standard and the wood spoke wheels were not offered.

 

Kume,

The Z brackets on my original speedster are made out 2.5 steel bar so it is very strong and would not break. With the Laurel style z bracket on my old chassis it was about a 4-5 inch drop on the rear and with the front was over 7 inches and extended the wheel base forward by 12inches. You can go either way (z the frame or extended shackles), either way is just as strong.

Get a book Called Model T's in Speed and Sport, it's blue and white cover and they have a whole section on lowering a T chassis (20 or so different ways). Also Check out the tech section of the Northwest vintage speedsters website (NWVS.org)for several other different ways to lower your chassis.

Chris Becker

 

Clayton, Alarm is actually a good system. In my mind I believe the old wood framed doors are able to move side to side about 3/4 of an inch. The lady from the alarm company said that the magnetic sensors can get fouled by dirt or dust . . . Today I disarmed and armed the system about 3 or 4 time with no problems. Next test is to see if any one tries to break in again. Oh Joy !

Dave

 

Chris, Way to tell the story. Looking forward to seeing how the Test Bed rides. I know that Clayton will find any weak spots . . . I have been able to do that also. My skills will be tested when I build my Special ! I am actually looking forward to it.

Do you and Clayton use a spot weld removal tool when you move cross members or any other frame parts ?

Dave

 

Thanks Chris

I found NWS tech section and now have some reading to do. I also had another look at the photos on Clayton's thread of the front chassis extension on your speedster - do you have any more details/photos on this design. It looks rather intriguing.

 

Here is all the plans I have for it.

 

They are stout, but it's not their strength or beefy-ness that is of concern to me (lord know those brackets of yours would survive an atomic blast ).....its stress on the frame and the inability to flex that does. The Model T frame, though flimsy in appearance, is remarkably strong. Constructed of Vanadium steel (which is both hard and flexible), the frame is actually designed and acts as part of the suspension and must be allowed to flex.

The addition of heavy boxing plates, heavy reinforced "Z" brackets or addition cross members may stiffen the frame, but this is counter-intuitive to the Model T's design and could cause extra stress by not allowing it to flex as intended and may result in these additions, or the frame "cracking out" at those weld points.

When I design my support cross member for the Chicago O.D. it will have to be built in such a way that the frame can still flex as intended while still offering support to the aux. O.D.

 

Kume,

If your going to use the laurel style z brackets do not weld them in place. I would bolt or rivet them so there is flex.The plans show where to rivet or bolt the brackets together. Clayton is right and I have personally seen cracked frames where pieces are welded to them. On my original chassis I welded boxing plates the full length of the frame to eliminate this problem.

Clayton you might need to look at your steering mount as it is just a welded plate to the inside and top rail of the frame and could cause cracking. Perfect candidate for another "Riveting" session with George!! Sorry!!

Chris

 

I agree. That was done before I really understood the concept and the design behind the Model T. I have worried about that steering mount for a long time and may just have to give in and replace it properly.

...another item added to my "to do" list.

 

Thanks Chris

I think the Laurel brackets are my best option at this stage - they look like they could have been factory fitted. I certainly wont be welding anything - its rivets or bolts all the way. I was most impressed with Clayton's hot riveting efforts - very pleasing to the eye and very much the look I will be trying to achieve.

 

One thought on lowering brackets in the rear: most vendors list them as fitting the '09-'25 frame. The '26-'27 rear crossmember is dimensionally different and won't fit those sold commercially. They're pretty simple, though. I suspect you could make a pattern and burn out some '26-'27 brackets in an afternoon.

-Dave

 

Clayton and Chris, What ? No Sat evening update on the speedster ? Don't be a holdin' out on us elderly gearhead fanatics. Gots to get my fix. My big thing for the day was to recycle our cans and plastic bottles . . . Gives me $33 and change in the pocket.
Thu I did some fence work on my car pen. Got the first or smallest hole boarded up. Get some nails and wood screws on Sun to reinstall some panels that came out . Need to do some more rearranging in the car pen so I can move the panel truck around to work on it.


Dave