Projects My 1951 Mercury Restoration Part II

Looking good john. I would use super glue to glue your pieces of vent rubber back together. One brand, I forget which one comes with a prep solvent that works really well.

 

John, Grille looks great. Make sure you TIG weld it. It will look better and if done right will give you a smaller bead.

 

Merc experts, question for you. The mockup shows that the Ford stuff does not completely follow the lines of the Mercury nose:


1) So should I plan to put the whole deal farther back in the nose, or take a "pie cut" from the center and change the angle?

2) Should I try to keep the join line between the grill sections, or do we care?

 

I wouldn't be opposed to the pie cut, I think that would go unnoticed but be a nice fit. So far as the joints, if you are really shooting for an "accurate" pre-55 theme, I would leave them since that's the "way they were." Me, however, I would weld them. I see no problem with a cleaned-up traditional theme so-to-speak as opposed to a purist point of view.

 

You know what I mean right, take a wee bit out of the center in the back so the bar follows the nose body lines completely...

I could leave the join lines in but I can see my welding buddies telling me tough titties and filling it since they would need so much work.

 

Yup, I know what you mean for the pie cut. If you did that, I would certainly weld up that cut so that only the most knowledgable about Ford grilles would recognize it had been done. But, for the joints on the sides, I think you can go either way and be fine. If you left them, you would have to do some good fitting so the gaps weren't huge like they are now, though.

 

Having seen my one friend repair and tig my wing window frames, I can sell that to keep that line, it would have be kinda scribed and added because the grill sections I have don't line up perfect. I think Rik or someone said a while back that maybe the Barris Merc grill is made from two center sections instead of the center and the two sides. If it was made from two center sections they might need less work to line up.

I just noticed the 2nd version of the Quesnel Mercury has this grille too:
Rik's Folder: http://public.fotki.com/Rikster/11_...ustom_cars/barris-1/jerry_quesnel_49_mercury/

 

Dave, Rick, guys, Anyone know for sure how the ends are set up on the Sam Barris grille? Is the bar contoured for the bullet, but not welded all the way around? That's how I discussed building mine with my buddy who tigs.

 

Well, I had a response all typed out saying maybe the way Sam did his was to swap the side pieces side for side so the bullets still mounted to the bar as original, but thinking more about it, I'm not sure that is right either. I have one of these grilles at home, too (mine will be done like the Hirohata). I'll try to see if I can dig up the parts this weekend and monkey around with it and see if I can help you figure it out.

 

Eh, I'm only wondering how the bar is shaped by the bullets... are the bullets completed welded to the bar...




FWIW, I think there is a possibility that the outer two bar sections are action a center bar that's been cut apart, but either way I can use the ends so the end result will look the same.

 

The more I look at it the more I think it is the bullets that are cut and not the bars.

 

Looks that way to me also.

 

I'm pretty sure the bar is shaped to fit the bullets. You're going to have to cut the tabs off the one end of the small grille piece as well as the plate that butts up to the outside bullet. Once you do that, the small bullet will fit into the end pretty well....a little grinding and filing and it'll fit even better.

As to how they attach, that I'm not sure. I was going to reweld the tabs to the grille piece and then drill holes in the bullet so that I could reuse the stock screws. That's more or less how my grille bolts together now, except I just used the tabs on both grille pieces since I didn't end up using the Ford bullets....

Cut...



Welded...



Bolted together...




Bryan

 

Thanks guys. Yeah Rusk I'm thinking I'll cut out the ends of the outside bar parts and then the bullets will largely fit in. I'll have to add some inner bracket to affix/bolt/weld the bullets onto the bar.

I swung by Tom @ Ajax REstorations and got a role of glass setting tape, finishing the wing windows will be my goal this weekend. Might be the last drive of the year too if it snows.

 

By the shape of the inside of the bullets, I would say they are cut to fit over the center bars. If it was the other way the bullet would look more round on the inside. It would be a cleaner installation that way I think.

 

If anyone has an extra '51 Ford center bar, I'll buy it.

Messed with the wing windows last night and this morning, they are pretty much done...

What I learned...
-Best to put them together out of the car, and then put the whole assembly in (maybe I'm just dense haha).
-Some dumbass who I had work on the car before added a few spot welds to the upper pivots, both of them, so I had to go buy a grinder and grind them off. One of the welds on one side was on the polished side, I have no idea if some people actually think as they do things.
-I tried to super glue the vertical gaskets, didn't hold. I then used the 3M plastic adhesive that I got from Mercuryland, I think it will work decent. I cut some wood stakes down and taped them to the stainless.
-I broke the latch off the driver's side I was pushing the glass in and my mind wandered. I am trying jb weld and using a clamp today hope it works.







Next stop, figure out the mounting bracket for the other channel and then mount the door glass. Should only take a minute or two to re-attach the wires for the power windows.

 

NO GOOD. I took the wood off and the wing windows fit like sh%%. I will have to pull them all apart and see about fixing them or making a new set myself.

Driver's side, goes low, maybe I can bend it up:


Passenger side, the wing window frame is too wide, I will have to have it cut down unless it's something I should do with my grinder and repolish. I believe the glass is too wide too. The window clearly is too wide, so the guy I used did not do a final it:


I'm a forward-focus and positive guy, here is a cool pic I took today:

 

Got a few ideas from y'all today, thanks very much...

-Passenger side it's only the top that needs to be shaved. I could maybe try moving upper pivot bar back a bit, might work and it's easy to drill a few little holes.. why not. I might still have to shave the glass though, it looks just too tight with the gasket in there. This bugs me as it clearly would not have closed and this would have been obvious so was that guy thinking that modified them for me.. NOT even close to closing.

-Driver's side dunno. I tried your idea Mike B of shimming the assembly up, but the gap looks like it won't get covered up and the bottom of the window frame might get so high that the bottom gasket will have a gap to the window trim. I think this one is more questionable. Bottom there is too much. Maybe I can bend/heat it up/bend and fix, or maybe I redo this side. I swapped a text or two with Matt Townsend, hope to chat with him tomorrow and make a decision on whether I scrap this piece and redo it. I think the glass might still work.

 

John- I would say Matt's your best bet with what's going on now.Run it by him and get his thoughts-Yo Matt-Wazz up?. Don't throw in the towel just yet.......The glass can be saved. The frames,I'll let someone with more knowledge than myself point you in a correct dirrection.
As quoted in a signature line= "it's hot-roddin',not paint by numbers"
We'll get thru it,you've come too far now!

 

Hey John, are both pieces I glass the same size? If you are "lucky" enough, maybe the one you have to shave down is a bit bigger than the one on the other side that's short? Maybe you could just swap glass side for side and tweak the frames accordingly to fit and be golden? I would never luck out like that, but things might go better for you than try usually do for me.

 

Thanks again Mike, thanks for letting me blow off some steam today while I was squiring around my boys for winterfest...

Dave, I'll try swapping the glass.

I did try shimming up the driver's side but then the bottom part is noticeably too high.

Thinking aloud, I really don't like the workmanship of the wing window frames. I personally notice that the curve lines are not smooth. The frames, they are...okay. But the windows, meh. I'm thinking right now I do a new set of them.

 

My vent windows are not very smooth either. It looks as if they were simply cold bent around and squished down to fit the smaller opening after the chop and the long trailing end cut off the back. The pivots do not quite line up and when you open the vents, they swing down to the inside, hitting the garnish molding. I have another set of uncut vent windows and frames and they seem to open more level. I intend to cut that set myself at some point to fix those issues. You may benefit from starting over with a fresh set. I don't remember now, but did your car come with this set of frames already cut and you have been tweaking them, or did you have this set cut (presumably) to fit? You hate to start over with something after having come so far, but since in your case, you will have the winter after putting the car up, it would be a good time. With any luck, it can all be straightened out and the whole window deal all sorted out and working by spring when you get the car back out and the salt is gone.

 

One day I decided to take control of my destiny, so you know what I did Doc?

I bought an electric toothbrush. This guy hasn't had a cavity in 14 years.

Okay where was I... When I bought my car it didn't have wing windows, just fixed glass. The set I have that have been butche.... I mean modified were purchased from Bill Papke. The frames are okay... they won't show so if they are a little wavy it's no big deal. But these wing windows... they are just not really curved. Bugs me when I look at them. I think this car deserves better. How do the wing windows on some older Mercs look, a little angular or curved like latina's butt?

I'm really striving to keep this car a balance of a weekend cruiser that I'll drive 50 miles, but also turn heads and get even non-car folks to swoon. I die a little bit when I see workmanship that I think detracts from how nice I've been able to make this car with the awesome help of y'all, help from Matt Townsend, Rik Hoving, Mike Blundo, Dr Dave, Mo, 00 Mack, JeffSled, Ian in Canada, and of course Bad Robert and 25 other diehards on here...

I just peeped the chrome interior garnishes in the Alcorn Merc, that would that cost, like $3K haha.

Positive waves man, positive waves... What movie is that from. I'm always positive after a few hours... And beers.

 

Just want to say thanks John for the mention and just I cant believe how nice your car is looking.You will have plenty of people swooning even non car people.Keep those positive waves flowing.

 

Update. I'm pulling the entire wing window assemblies and sending them to Matt.

I told him he can keep the wing windows to put in his hall of shame.

 

Thanks for all the posts on the wing windows. Maybe Matt can do a how to do it right thread for those of us that need to do this and have never done it before

 

I could make a post on how to put them together and install them, but when it comes to having crappy looking curves on the wing windows... I can't live with them. It's stuff like this that makes a car a B build vs. an A build. Mebbe some day I hit some cool shows, and some Socal folks are there. I want the best looking wing windows in my car. I have seen Bad Bob's car and it's pretty nice. All the little fit and finish stuff on his car is great. Matt did it.

 

Update on the Merculator/ Mercula/ El Misterious/ (what's a good name for the car Rikster????)

Wing windows:
I'm going to pull them soon and send the wing window assemblies to Matt @ Townsend Fabrication in Riverside, CA, sometime in the next two weeks.

Grille:
I'm in the process of buying another '51 Ford center bar. Once I have that I can move the grille project forward.

Other:
Anyone know where I can buy the screws/bolts for all the interior garnish moldings? Mike B was that screw kit that you talked about having all of those? Should I be getting button head stainless ones or?

 

It already has a name! McMercury,haha! Matt told me about your wings. That sucks...He'll fix you right up.

 

LOL I'll never get away from that... But I'll come up a purty name for when I get it into a magazine...