Projects My Apache...

Need any parts got a 58 apache sittin here

 

The Rancho chart is a good resource. Figuring out TRUE compression of your set-up is tough because you would have to weigh it down until it travel completely stopped. Take the measurement where it sits (static) from the upper shock mount to the lower shock mount - that is your static shock length (mid-travel). Now take the distance of the top of the axle to the closest point on the frame (at the SAME angle as the one that is represented by the relationship of the upper and lower shock mounts...THAT would be MAX shock compression travel (before bottoming out)....subtract this number from the first and you get compressed shock length To find extension you need to jack the truck up by the frame. When the wheel comes off the ground, measure the distance from the upper to lower shock mounts....THAT is MAX extension - MAX shock length. The extension number distance from static is usually a larger difference than the compression number distance from static. In other words, the suspension usually has more travel to full extension that it has to full compression (bottoming out). If you know you have 5" to MAX compression, then allowing 5" for extension will be adequate (for a vehicle NOT being driven off-road). Most shocks that will suit your needs will only have 8 to 10 inches of total travel. For example, if your distance when static from upper shock mount to lower shock mount is around 16" (which I guess is probably within a couple inches of your scenario) then you need a shock with MAX compression no LESS than 11" and MAX extension right around 21". (the compressed minimum is more critical in this scenario than the extension number) Find this shock on the Rancho RS5000 chart and then have a good parts guy at a local parts counter cross reference the Rancho part number to Monroe or KYB or whatever other brand you want.

 

Thanks buzz, seems pretty simple. This is the reason i have to redo my mounts because as it sits right now i have about 9 inches between upper and lower mounts sitting static. This is a result of my dumbass not having everything mocked up or planning ahead. Im gonna knock some new mounts out this week. I got some mounting studs in the mail as we speak. Also as far as the axle mount. Would it matter if the lower mount is kicked out off the axle tube 3 inches or so?

Sent from my DROID device using the TJJ mobile app

 

This is similar to how i wanna build my lower mount. Also i have the monroe specs chart downloaded on my phone. The few sets of shocks im lookin at are like $18 a piece and available through napa locally

Sent from my DROID device using the TJJ mobile app

 

I figured the exact shock length i need. I had one of my old shocks laying around and its the exact length i need from upper to lower mount. I used it to mock these setups up. Which do you guys like better ? I like the 1st setup better. 2nd seems a little steep of an angle ? Also, with a notch this small its lookin like im gonna have to dump the exhaust in front of the rear

Sent from my DROID device using the TJJ mobile app

 

The second pic (on the right) shock angle looks closer to the what the original angle would have been. I think.

 

i agree red ryder, but the more i looked at that setup, the less sense it made. from what ive read 15 - 20 degrees of angle is pretty much optimum, which would be pic #1. also, when i make the mounts i wanna weld the shock stud on so its just 2 nuts and 2 washers holding the shock on. if i welded the studs on that setup, the upper would be pointing towards the front of the truck, and the lower stud towards the rear. this may be a PITA to get the shock on and off

 

Having said all that, the angle in setup 2 is almost exactly stock like you said, so in effect i see no problem with the angle. And it gives more scrubline clearance as i wont have to go as low on the bottom mount.

Sent from my DROID device using the TJJ mobile app

 

I don't think I would weld the mount to the axle tube. The tube isn't meant to take that much stress in any one spot. The best method is to weld the lower shock mount to the lower U-bolt plate that sits under the leaf spring and the U-bolt ends pass through. This way the weight is dispersed more evenly, and in addition, the leafs are not working against the shocks, but in conjunction with them. If the tube had it's own suspension, the leafs (with a different rebound cycle) would be working against the shocks and their dampening and rebound cycle.

Also, vertical shocks are better on suspensions with a lot of travel while more angled shocks are better on suspensions with less...simply because the more angled the shock on a suspension with less travel the more it allows the shock to travel thoroughly through it's range of travel...utilizing it's dampening effect and preventing premature wear on the shock. The stock angle is a better angle for your truck.

This principle of course does not ring true with airbags...simply because the airbags require vertical orientation otherwise they would fold and/or collapse.

 

The u bolt plate style mount just flat isnt gonna work with this setup. The scrubline comes into play along with huge clearance issues along the framerail. Ive seen a lot of people run direct axle mounts. The mount im gonna make will be 2 or 3 inches wide and wrap almost halfway around the tube to disperse the weight. The mounts on the axle now are cpp's flip kit shock mounts. Everyone seems to have no issues, but i know i can fab something stronger and an overall better design.

Also buzznut, on your brake setup is there any reason i couldnt weld the new bracket to the stock one instead of bolting ? Also if i made my own bracket, would i have clearance to move the master in towards the framerail more, therefor eliminating the nylon spacer and butting the heim up against the pedal arm? Im trying to get a gameplan before i get the master here, just throwing ideas around.


Sent from my DROID device using the TJJ mobile app

 

Sounds like you might be able to get away with it if you wrap the axle. As far as scrubline goes, my U-bolt plates have a tab that comes off the side and actually raises the shock stud to about parallel the the bottom of the axle tube.

On the brakes, my only concern would be encroaching on the clutch pedal and linkage, otherwise I don't see why not. I think that since the CPP bracket was made to use the OE mounting bracket as is and bolt directly to it, the limitation ended up being the actual width of the new dual master cylinder....the piston hole can honestly only get so close to the frame.... unless you cut the old bracket off and move the new master cylinder about 1/2" closer to the frame and fab a bracket from scratch. You'll have to hold it in place and play with placement when you have the new dual master in your hands, just measure 5 times and do all the math before you make your decision and start cutting.

 

lenciser, I don't think you're posting in the thread you think you are. You're posts have nothing to do with this discussion.

 

Its funny, I am contemplating different shock mounts as well. I am thinking of mounting the shock straight up and down but its going to be tight.




Thinking of fabbing up a mount like this to bolt under the leaf spring mounting plate.

 

Not a bad idea. I dont have enough room to do that but i like the idea. Maybe some how strengthen that plate mount a little. How will vertical shocks effect body roll in corners? I read the angled mounts keep the roll to a minimum

Sent from my DROID device using the TJJ mobile app

 

Looking forward to that air freshener! Love your play!

 

Was thinking to do the same with a 58 apache givin to me but way to much work I got a lot of parts and the original bench seat

 

Wack01 that wasnt me playing ! Thats derek trucks. I wish it was !

Sent from my DROID device using the TJJ mobile app

 

Personally I would avoid mounting the shocks vertical...it just somehow seems wrong to me.

 

I feel the same, no matter how much i read and ive seen shocks vertical. Just seems odd

Sent from my DROID device using the TJJ mobile app

 

Hey buzz, got a part number on that brake bracket ? Only one i can find looks a bit different than yours and its 70 bucks

Sent from my DROID device using the TJJ mobile app

 

This is exactly what my bracket looks like. I bought it over 10 years ago and can't remember exactly where I got it. It wasn't in a box and I never noticed any part numbers stamped into it.

http://www.jamcosuspension.com/products/productID/777

Mine did not come with the heim, pushrod or bolts...that's likely why this one is more expensive.

 

Here's the master at a good price:

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/GM-Corvette-Cast-Iron-Master-Cylinder-1-Inch-Bore,51673.html

 

Here's the same bracket at Speedway for less:

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/1955-59-Chevy-Pickup-Master-Cylinder-Adapter,34153.html

And the proportioning valve, just in case:

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/GM-Disc-Drum-Proportioning-Valve-for-1-2-20-9-16-18-Outlets,9878.html

 

thanks again buzz. youve been a big help on this brake setup

 

that is because it is wrong. the whole point in making them at an angle is to help stabilize the vehicle in a roll or otherwise not normal spring movement, such as in a curve. I worked at KYB for a time out of college. You want to mount them at an angle and also Buzz is correct, do not weld to that tube for a shock mount location, it is not designed for that. Instead you can use the bracket mentioned (a bolt that is halfway between a plate and just mount them to a different part of your frame). You can do one forward and one back for further stability if you choose.

 

Buzz was referring to the axle tube...... Why is the bridge bar a bad idea ? Seems plenty strong. My buddy has a similar setup and hasnt had issues in the years hes driven it. I cant think of any other place to put them either



Sent from my DROID device using the TJJ mobile app

 

I was referring to the axle tube as well, sorry for the confusion. Your bridge bar is your only option other than the frame itself (which technically the bridge bar is the frame). you should be okay with doing it that way.

 

O sorry i was confused there lol. With the notch as low as it is i really cant mount it on the spring plate. a plate like the one pictured just doesnt seem that strong to me. If i made a heavy duty mount off the axle tube and had it wrap half way around the tube i think itd be WAY stronger. as far as the integrity of the tube itself being an issue, i dont see a problem. alot of people run shock mounts and other mounts directly off the axle. the diesel guys up here run traction bar mounts directly off the axle on there pulltrucks and never have an issue. the traction bar itself will bend or snap before the mounts in almost all cases, and thats under the force of axle wrap backed by 1500+ lb ft. i dont think the shock mount will be a big deal really. Also i may gusset the bridge bars to the step notch underneath the bar

Sent from my DROID device using the TJJ mobile app

 

Tore the rear out tonight to cut off the old shock mounts. Mounting studs should be in the mail tomorrow. Ill be picking shocks up at napa tomorrow as well. Hopefully have the new mounts all knocked out by thurs. That 9 inch is a heavy bastard !

Sent from my DROID device using the TJJ mobile app

 

Bitchin bro. If you had to do your rear notch cross support would you do anything differently? I need to figure something out for mine. Keep up the good work.