Thanks for the pics.... Sorry your back's hurting again. Here's a long hood, "streamlined" Bugatti Atlantic
What I had in mind when I buit my car was a Traditional Hot Rod that is instantly recognisable as a Model A Roadster, but with strong infuences of 30s European Road Track Racers. But I probably screwed up a little by putting the Hardtop on. Building a swoopy Aluminum body like you are talking about would take it that much farther. Take a look at Tam's Old Race Car Site, There are some pics there of the Tom Bamford Cad Alfa. Hand built Aluminum body, Prewar Alfa Ch***is, Halibrand Smoothy Knockoffs and Q/C rear, Cad engine. Equal parts Hot Rod/ Special/ 30's Euro Race car... This car was recently found, and I have seen it in person. It is awesome...
Hell I don't really know anything about what I'm doing. But I'm having a really good time doing it. I don't think in all my life I've ever just gone out day after day and spent hour after hour on something. Making very little noticable progress all the way. But I LOVE it. I'm sure as hell not making anything ground breaking, just having fun rebuilding and copying.
YEAH! I hear ya! While I'm messing around with my old pontiac coupe, I'm thinkin "inline engined lakes modified with mucho art-deco styling"......when I try to put these thoughts out of my brain, I can't help but remember what FlyinJ1's saving for me at his house....can't talk about it but Ryan, you'd understand....you'd know....you'll see.
Steve Moal has flirted with all of this and his craftsmanship is amazing I hear... I love his cars, but the designs are almost too pretentious for this idea. I think this car needs to look like a race car - not a show car. By that, I mean everything should have a function and if it is a really predominate feature, that function should be just as obvious. Compare this Moal car to one of the Mercs above. The Merc has better lines I think that is because the older car wasnt restrained by trying to hold on to some other cars lines. I think the body we speak of would have to be scratch built. Maybe we do lose all recognizable Ford lines and the hot rod part comes in with the details and the actual mechanics flathead, banjo rear, Ford top loader, drilled early juice brakes, etc
I was aiming for that longer hood idea with this car. It's runnig an inline 6. I'll finish it some year, if I ever stop changing things. It doesn't look much like this anymore, different grill, box/trunk instead of the bed and an alyouminium tank hanging off the back "Gabby" gow style.
Remember everyone can be cool twice in a lifetime if you hold still long enough. when it was cool the first time and then when it comes around again. There is still alot to be done with traditional rods and remain true to our roots. Tuyrbos, injection blowers, streamlinning, just take what ya got and refine it. That's what the original rodders did. Grab ahold of whatever you like in the line of a trad rod, and make it the most better you can. Then tweek it somemore. How 'bout a 160 mph streetable zephyre for instance. already got fair lines, add your own personal touches and then build the worlds most radical extreme drivetrain to go under it. The possibilities are endless, your only limited by your imagination, and your budget. Oh never mind, when this ride is over just hold still it will come back around.
Ryan I was about to mention the latest Moal creation. I got the new Street Rodder and I was blown away. I, for one, have far reaching tastes in all things automotive. ****, I'd love to have a stock Facel Vega, that's a car I could live with. I apologize profusely for Florida and I hope we can better ourselves because there's no excuse for building ****ty stuff. I'm serious. I hope you feel better soon.
And it just came to me... The reason the Mercs look so right, I mean... We are building hot rods out of cars that were originally built for the street. These Mercs were built from day one to go fast... Everything about them is all about purpose. That's what is holding us "back."
The nose design on that Moal car is straight off a Alpha Romeo from the 30s. That's the style of cars Ryans talking about, I think... 30's gow jobs, and '40s hotrods aren't/weren't much diffeent in concept from the European/British short run or even one off sports cars of the same eras. There was a '32 Ford at the Road Kings Picknic a few years ago that had a body similer in concept and proportions to the Moal car and the sports cars of the 30s,a nd people were saying. "That doesn't look like a '32 Ford" Well, it was. It was all '32 Ford Frame and various Ford running gear with the driver set back right in front of the rear axle close in engine location (stock, with a big void before the firewall started) proportions to a Lotus 7. It just didn't have a s***ch of Ford body on it. It's more like the "Cl***ic Car" idea where the frame is the car, and the body is hand made, where as "Hotrodders/Streetrodders" have pretty much reversed that for years and made the body the only part that counts, and the frame, running gear and engine the do what you will part. As in "Resto Rods" Ryan is being a Revolutionary, again...Watch Out!!!
I've got ideas. I'm collecting parts. And I've learned a lot so far from my present build. Biggest problem as I see it is you need a pretty big channel - for lack of a better word. And even if you do some sort of frame Z or swoopy tube frame to drop the driver down, you've still got the axles shoved way into the body to keep the right at***ude with those big wheels - and it has to have big wheels. So where does the driveshaft go? I think the Edsel Speedster was a pretty good start - and something close to that would look ten times as "racecar" if it was painted silver. I'm rambling. My boss just left so I'm leaving to get some flathead parts ready to bolt on....lets just tear the front off my roadster and rework it to make something that fits a stock radiator.
American Hot Rodders really studied these cars in the 50s. In those last 2 pics you can see a Indy Roadster and a Bonneville Streamliner... Edit, Ryan's two last pics...
Im young and stubborn... I beleive Rat rodders evolve more into the traditional style over the years, but I have so god damn many ideas running through my head .. it hurts heres a quicky...
[ QUOTE ] And it just came to me... The reason the Mercs look so right, I mean... We are building hot rods out of cars that were originally built for the street. These Mercs were built from day one to go fast... Everything about them is all about purpose. That's what is holding us "back." [/ QUOTE ] I don't know about you Ryan, but the only thing holding me back is money! Seruously though, I can't wait to see what you come up with.
I was going to say earlier that a I think hot rodders build the mechanicals to fit under the bodies and those cars look like they built the ch***is first and then figured out a pleasing way to skin them. Man, I need to go work on this flathead stuff.
This car reminds me a lot of this one It's Ralph Schenck's streamliner built for the lakes in 1938. The engine was a 1925 Chevrolet block with a 3 port Olds head, model B Ford crankshaft, Hudson water pump. Got that info shortly after Ralph p***ed away last year. I'm getting real interested in the older race cars, especially the road racers and the hillclimbers and the cars I photographed at Mt. Washington a couple weeks ago. It'd be big bucks to try and find original racers and restore them, but it might be fun to build something in the spirit of, say, the Old Gray Mare or the Ardent Alligator. Just some ideas, man. It's frustrating to have more ideas than outlets, I know. dan
[ QUOTE ] 30's gow jobs, and '40s hotrods aren't/weren't much diffeent in concept from the European/British short run or even one off sports cars of the same eras. [/ QUOTE ] You are right - not that much difference, but it is these little differences that all add up to make the early European race cars so much more functional in design. Look at this car: Very close to some early cars like I have shown, but much less sophisticated. It is cluttered. Ralph was very close with this car (hand made body): I think it all boils down to the purpose of the car when it was originally built. We can't compete with the lines of one of these early Mercs if we are starting with a '32 roadster... It's not going to happen. Now, I don't want to sound like I am forgetting why I love early american hot rods. I do and will always... The cluttered look I mentioned above is american character and ingenuity in metal. That's one of the great things about hot rods... But god are those grand prix and early german speed cars gorgeous...
You can stay traditional and have a sporty type car. One pill makes you larger and, one pill makes you small.
The main problem I have in my mind is scrub line... You can say **** it if it's a lakes car but I don't think anything lower than the rim looks right on a street car (open wheeled hot rod, Kustoms are a different animal but I tend to stand by it with them also). It's about that function dictating form thing. A car that sk****s the ground will eventually and that's bad at speed. You can put the the wheelbase anywhere and move the engine anywhere but getting the right bellypan depth and body thickness is the real *****.
i can see where your going with this ryan (i hope) especially with the back stuff...i`m waiting for the good old british national health to provide me with an epidural [sp] to my spine so they can put the discs back where they belong...anyway back to the cars..there was a an `A` roadster built over here for a guy named Jim Pantal that pretty much met the criteria the car to me always seemed more streamlined than a normal `A` roadster even though its a pretty close representation of an original `A` ( this is a hand formed `clone` from aluminium )check out the photos .....my next statement is probably pure bunkum but i`m gonna say it anyway.....colour...if you check out the shots that ryan put up here they are all light in colour if not silver.... to me silver makes a car more streamlined more aerodynamic than any other colour.....put 2 merc slk`s side by side one red and one silver which looks more streamlined....like i said i might be talking **** but look next time you see a silver car....heres the `A` i was talking about....full riley running gear monkey
I have been laying low on the HAMB for a long time, but this thread is damn interesting and a whole lot less narrowminded than much of the stuff I read on her these days. Coolness i everywhere; there are loads of interesting moments in the carhistory, that doesnt have anything to do with 49 Mercs and 32 roadsters at all. Im pretty sure some of these moments, cars, races, engines, designs, and general crazy ideas can be used to create something cool in the hotrod world... Get well soon, bro. (I have had a stack of cards of those Monaco-posters since I was a kid btw. Awesome stuff!)
I've got to find the pics of the Ardun powered hand built sports car that was built by a guy in my quiet little town...
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