Thanks everyone for all the compliments! I do appreciate them quite a bit since I'm learning as I go here. Little update, not the best one but here it goes. I bolted the trans in the other day and found that it sat about 4" below the framerails. This is way lower then I want that to sit. So upon further review I'm moving the engine up 2" from its current location. This will split it in half but will also create a new problem. I set this engine up to have level lower radiator hoses, now those will have to have a bend in them. I figured that's a fir trade for more ground clearance under this thing. Another thing I needed to raise the engine for was the clutch lever on the clutch shaft. It was to low and I wanted it a little higher for a flat clutch linkage rod. One little bonus is my current spindles are the correct set to use F100 bearings. My backing plates also don't need the spacer ring. My brake master is the wrong one, so now I gotta get a new one of those, plus make the adapter from the 3 bolt to the 2 bolt. Just another learning experience. This learning is getting expensive these days. Here is a shot of the trans sitting @4" below the chassis. This was my old location. Second one here is the current spot where I'll put the new mounts at. Don't mind the jack, it was only used that way to put a couple small shims to get the engine level on the cross plane. Front to back its staying at 1.5° of slope. Onto the next issue at hand. Upon purchasing the parts I believed the front axle was new since it was shiny and wrapped in bubble wrap and paper. I was wrong. It appears that this had been used to set up and then sold. There are Jack marks on the lower center of the beam, wear on the chrome at all install locations. I'm a bit bummed about that. That said, I think I know why it was abandoned. The chrome keeps the spindles from being final installed, they just bind up. So what I'll have to do is have the top and bottom of the kingpin surface of the beam machined flat and true to the kingpin itself. Not something I wanted to screw with, but will be the only way I can use this axle. A buddy of mine said he'd loan me another axle for the setup. Mine is a 5" drop and his is a 4" drop. I can actually use both now to see which drop I like best. Yet another issue with parts, one of my spindles has bad bushings on one side. So I'll have to replace those. Again, they were wrapped up, shiny new chrome, and even had the thread protectors on them. Lots of this had really bummed me out, but I'll press on as always. Last shot here, I forgot in my parts I had a bunch of hockey pucks I was going to use for a project. So I drilled a hole in them and used them for my 2" spacers since they were right on the money. I'm going to have to figure out a new name for this build. Maybe 2 Steps since that seems to always be the wrong direction I'm going in. Does anyone else go through this with builds, cause it don't make it much fun sometimes.
Don't get discouraged. We all have to rethink several aspects of our projects. For me, I can tell you that I do more thinking than working when tackling a new project or undertaking unfamiliar processes. It is just the way it is. Sometimes it seems like the problems to be solved are mounting faster than the solutions. You have the skills and drive and a few bumps in the road will soon be in the rear view mirror. Every build differs. The method I like to use is working from the front to the rear. You know the available space needed and the dimensions of the components being used. The rad\fan\shell\hood have to be considered early on, Engine placement should start there, then the fire wall needs to be made compatible. Altering a fire wall will enable better fitment for a flattie ensuring you have room to remove heads without removing the engine and enough space for a mechanical fuel pump. Knowing your rear tire height from the get-go will pinpoint your pinion height. Angles can be set later but at least you will then know the drivetrain centerline allowing for accurate mounting of the engine and trans. After the mounting is complete, all you need to do is use or build the correct length driveshaft. It is good that you have considered lower rad hose configuration well in advance. You are doing great, carry on and good luck!
Thanks for the good words of encouragement, I really needed that. I think my frustration comes from not understanding and knowing all the parts, what works together and what doesn't. Things that seem common knowledge to most on here, leave me puzzled. Reading through discussion after discussion and trying to weed out the garbage info is not that easy. I will keep the pace and eventually figure this stuff out. I think the main discouragement is the fact that most of the used parts I have and buy are no good or need work. That combined with 2 steps back and 1 step forward progress kills moral and enjoyment. I spent a good portion of my last couple days doing as much research on parts that I need, so I think I've figured some things out. My next project will be to finalize the engine placement via height based on the clutch linkage. Then a Transmission crossmember, followed by 2 more horizontal braces between the chassis rails and K-member to tie in the trans mount. After that will be to mockup the front and rear suspensions and brakes. Get the thing on the ground and rolled out to check profile, probably toss the body on for kicks to get that profile as well. If it all looks good, I will keep moving to final welding of the chassis. I'm trying to figure out my wishbone setup. I definitely want a wishbone look, even if I have to split them and run the mount at the chassis slightly split. Again, thanks for the positive comments, and advise on progress!
I was going to wait to see how you make out with setting height so it coincides with the clutch linkage but thought I should say this. It sounds like raising the engine/trans will help with the alignment and you may be close or right on but normally the pedal assembly and linkage would be fitted after the drivetrain fitment. Not important when using stock components that are designed to fit but you are trying to match up to your pre-determined pedal/linkage location. I just want to warn you that pre-determined pedal linkage or pedal position may need to be changed. The pedals must fit you when seated properly. I like a good heel to toe operation of all three pedals with minimal effort. Linkage can always be made to fit after the engine is situated. I wouldn't compromise the drivetrain centerline so it aligns with linkage. Just something else to consider.
Well another step backwards, this is almost getting funny at this point. So, Speedway Motors Hubs do not accept the stock part numbers for seals and bearings for a factory 40 ford. Speedway sells a kit for 122 bucks that gives you bearings and seals, but it also gives you races which are already pressed into the hub. To me this is kinda pointless in not giving an option to buy the bearings and seals. I called them today to order the correct bearings and seals since they are nowhere to be found on their site. They said that I was correct in that the parts didn't exist online but they could order me individual ones. I asked them to fix this issue and to attach the option to purchase just the bearings and seals alone without the races. This saves you about 30 bucks. So here I wait again for parts that were assumed correct and turned out wrong. On the plus side I have proper 40 bearings and seals for a stock/factory hub. On another note, I got all the brake parts in. Time will tell if those are correct as I won't be able to check them for a couple days. Clutch shaft came in to swap out the other one that was wrong. I'm planning to use a 35 arm which is straight vs. the 33-34 one with an angle. This will allow for a better straight line pull on the linkage.
Got back into the shop. Been trying to figure brake drums out for the front. I bought the Speedway spindles and am trying to figure out what parts fit and work with them. When I do figure it out I'll post up a new thread since I didn't find much if any info on the Speedway hubs on here. Got the old engine mounts out and the new ones welded up and tacked in place. Basically, copy and paste of what I did before minus the extra 2" of height. Next project after I got the engine located up front again was to build a trans mount. Took a piece of angle iron and went to town creating something that looked half decent and served its purpose. I'm happy with how this turned out. Once I get the trans back out I can finish by drilling the 2 side bolt holes that bolt the trans mount on the vertical sides of the K-member. After all the cutting, bending and layout work it took shape and turned out pretty good Mocked up on the chassis. All bolt holes were still spot on after the welding was done. I was a little worried about that with how much welding was done, but I guess I chose correctly on where to weld and when.
Well it's been a bit since I updated the build. I have been busy you could say. I've been in and out of the shop for very short periods of time. So I hope I can remember all the photos and what was going on. Here it goes..... I had ordered a srt of Edelbrock heads from Jegs back in October of 21. They still hadn't arrived a month ago despite all other suppliers having them in stock. So I canceled and put up the extra 50 bucks for inflation pricing and picked them up from Speedway. I didn't like the rounded fins so I clamped it up in the mill for a little extra touch. I don't have a final picture, and they are at the engine shop now, so it will be final engine assembly before I can get a picture. Got a wild hair and decided to toss the wheels and tires on, as well as the arms up front which need to be cut and moved to thier proper spot level at ride height. This was with the 3" front blocks tack welded in. I want 2.5" so it will sit a little lower up front. I'll adjust that later. Got the chassis on a level spot checked with a level and checked my measurements. Everything checks out so far. I needed some rear arms since I didn't have any. Found 2 sets for 80 bucks at the local swap meet. Couldn't resist having a spare set. A little fine tuning will have to be done to get them to sit in the proper spot, as well as removing my 1" support bar that's holding the frame in check yet. Everything is still tacked in place. I'll have to remove the rear and front one though to get the arms in place. I will probably make a driveline hoop and incorporate that into and with the rear arm mount. And as we all do, I got side tracked. I wanted to get this other flathead I had laying around off the ground and into the chassis. So I tore it all apart, which I had to do anyway. I want to take this in to the machine shop after mock up to see if it's a good engine. So far I haven't seen any cracks, but we all know better then to assume with a flathead block lol. I believe someone has been into this one since it had an aluminum cam gear. I will try to be out in the shop more. I had to get my Cyclekart ready for another race and had a bunch to tidy up on it. Now that that's mostly finished I can start my focus back on the A.
Did a little design work and figuring on the rear arms today. I decided to draw up a design for the mount at the chassis. Nothing special, and very simple, which u prefer. I've been busy with my Cyclekart still but that is over now till after the next event. I put a spacer in between the arms that will match the bushing width. Drew a centerline from each tube to figure out where it will intersect past the joint. I need this point to be directly under the center of the cap on the U-joint. The rear is 3-3/4" down from the center of the axle tube, so I need to match that as well up front. I cut and thoroughly cleaned each end of the arms. The cut off end I tossed into the sand blast cabinet to clean it up good. Also took the dremel and cleaned the inside to avoid contamination when welding. After I get my bushing I will be able to fab up a bracket and weld these things all up. Here's a quick drawing of how I want to set it up. Like I mentioned, super simple.
Well, as we all know summer is a busy time. Especially in the PNW. I have some photos from small bits of time I've been able to get out and work on the car. Here it goes! I got the rear trailing arms set and final welded in. I have yet to get a traction bar setup. I may end using another arm as a traction bar. Most likely will, but that will take a little work to look good. Finished up the rear link attachment point. I used a part from my offroad world background. Ballistic Fab has these joints I've used on previous projects. It worked perfectly for this. You can order them in many different sizes which is nice. I welded nuts on the inside of the round plate area. This will accept a bolt the same as the lower four. It adds some side to side rigidity, and some front to back load from the suspension. Should work out well. I'm trying to make as much of my parts removable or easily serviceable. Picked up 3 new Stromberg 97 carbs with chokes from Uncle Mike's. I highly recommend him for your carb servicing and or purchases. He was a stand up guy to work with. Since the rear of the car is set and ready minus the traction bar, I decided to move to the front. This was a bit more involved for sure. I cut the ends off and removed the tubes. Still set at loaded ride height I then found the angle to cut the arms. Tacked them into place and then went to town setting the height of the mounting points. After that I clamped up a bunch of straight lines, set up some plumb lines, and made some mounts for the rear I could clamp into place. I'm setting the front end up for roughly 4.5" of travel. This pic doesn't show the extra 1/2" of uptravel I actually have. I could have a little more down travel as well but this is set at loaded ride height and cycled for 4.5" of travel. I had to move the rear mounts to make sure my ride height centerline was set. This took a lot of time and patience. Moving them up and down, setting up the front again ans then cycling it. I did this over and over till I found its sweet spot. Then when you arc the suspension (travel up and down) it should be even. It should pull away and return near the same measurement top and bottom. Hard to explain but the photo shows ya that. This will mean I've got the same arc in my travel both up and down. I have yet to make rear mounts. I've picked up some 5/8" this steel. I will drill and ream the hole for the proper taper on the tie rod ends. I will then weld them into place and build some gussets. After that I will move to the rear again and build the traction bar and driveline hoop.
In the beginning you have a shot of the QC on the table for mock up. Did you split the tube the hangers are attached to to get them to slip over the bells, and do you have a final width of the rear end? Very nice work for your first model A build. You’ve been doing something in your spare time before this.
Thanks for the compliment! I have never built a chassis before, but I have done fab work in the past. I have a friend who has been a huge help. He has been a big factor in what and how I'm learning. My fab work consists of a grinder, small drill press, welder, torch and a lathe. I would love to have more metal working tools, but that is in due time. I like the challenge though with limited equipment. The axle came out of the main parts I purchased for this car. I did not set it up and am not versed well in the QC stuff. I will be familiarizing myself for sure later on in the build. I can get you a rough width from backing plate to backing plate if you would like that?
I would have used a Johnny joint...allows more movement. With ladder bars you have a rigid attachment at the diff, so all swivelling is at the front. That's why torque tubes have a ball/cup fitting at the front. A JJ is a ball. My 2 cents anyway.
X2 Ballistic Fab also do these, - Forged Chrome Moly with preload adjustment on ball with replaceable bushes. A nice piece.
You guys make a good point. My idea behind this design is to keep more of the vibrations and shock transfer from the axle reaching the chassis as much. I felt a rigid joint like the johnny joint might be a bit harsh for the ride. I'll roll with this setup for now, but will cycle the suspension to see how it reacts to the poly joint I have. One other note I did not mention with these joints. They have a zerk fitting for greasing which is nice.
Been a bit yet again. I see a trend that needs to stop. Been out in the shop here and there making things happen. Got the front dialed into where I like it as it cycles through its suspension limits. As mentioned in one of my last posts, I went to town on some 5/8" steel. Traced them out, got the band saw out and cut them to spec. Spent some time with the sander to get the basic shape. Then it was off to the milling machine. Drilled some holes with the old Christmas tree bit, then chucked up the taper reamer. After I got that set proper for depth I spun them around and milled out a step. This is to index them exactly the same on each side. It will also allow for there to be a more spread out load path. I will put a gusset or two on these some time in the future. Next post I'll go into the rear traction bar setup. That's a bit more involved then just a simple bar.
Here's my plan, and it should work good I hope. I'm starting with a 35 to 40 Ford rear arm that was bent, supplied by a good friend. What I wanted to do was try and make it look like a factory part. That said my first plan was to figure out exactly how I wanted to orient it. My first plan was to do a separate bracket. I haven't ruled that out yet but currently my plan is to try and use the existing bolt holes that attached to the axle tube and shift it inboard to the housing. Match up the bolt holes and figure out where to attach it up front. So here I just bolted a piece of stainless as a handle for a lever. This allowed me to bend it to orient the bolt holes parallel to the tube. That went pretty easy. Now that it was straight, I had to bring the bolt hole locations in closer to match the housing bolt hole spacing. So, the torch work began. I am by no means a pro here. I literally bought this torch for this project alone since my map gas torch juat wouldn't cut it. That said, I am happy with how it turned out. I will need to add some material like a spacer on one bolt hole, then machine it flat to mount to the rear housing since it's offset some. Here's how it loosely sits on the axle bell. This is the through bolt housing. It will tuck up much higher. My other plan is to cut the cast end off at the factory weld, clock it up some, then re-weld it. You can see the gap behind that front bolt. That's where I will need to add a spacer. Plus I will machine it to bring it in closer to the housing. Bla bla bla....let's keep moving. These things are really long so I rough cut it to 44". I will re-use the cut end as well, but just the cast factory end to bolt it up. As it sits loose. I am going to try and line it up to be straight off the axle. Not 100% sure on how I want to attach it to the front. I have some ideas stiring but currently my plan is to take the one current arm off, machine a threaded plug, weld it in and bolt this to the arm. This way it can be all unbolted. It can also be re-made easily if something should destroy a tube. That's it for now. I gotta get back out and keep on going!
Others have made a torque arm from a 3rd bar like you, but mounted from the top of the housing. Triangulates things, rather than all 3 mounting points in the same similar plane.
Got a little more done on the car over this last week. Finalized the lower bar out back. I decided to modify the mounting location. That meant I had to slightly shorten that passenger side outer arm. Got that all done, still fits great and the axle is straight with the chassis. Heated up the bolt holes and welded those up. Then I set it up on the mill and machined both surfaces of each bolt hole location flat. After that was the mounting end. I heated that up, took it to the anvil and did a little work to get that straight. Then I cut 2 relief lines about 3" long in the tube so I could squeeze it to the proper diameter of the cast end. Got that all done and burned it in. All mounted up, it fits good but I need to tweak it just a little. There is a slight bind when I bolt it up so that has to go away. Next was to move on to the upper bar. This is basically the same thing, but it has a bend in it to clear the driveline. This time I cut/bent and then welded the back hole. I had an old jeep cherokee driveline laying around which fit beautifully as a mock up. This way I could make sure I was plenty clear. My goal is to go to a aluminum driveline if I have the space. It took a while to get it bent in good, as well as getting the cut to fit the lower tube. It turned out good, but I want to work it some more with the torch. I don't like some of the wrinkles it has. Granted you will never see them since they are up in and on the driveline side, but it makes me crazy. I have to attempt it at the very least to make it look better. Once I get it looking better, I will do the final welding to it. I might add a driveline hoop to this bar as well. Time will tell on that. The next thing after this is to button up the front end, get the arms welded up, get some better tacks on the brackets that are attached to the frame. Then I'll move along with getting the body on and steering set in place.
Got some good work in over the last few days. First I finished up the rear traction bar setup and did the final welding and straightening of that. Final welded the front arms so those are finished for now. Did a bunch of random welding on the frame, I jumped all over the place and did small welds. This was to keep the chassis cool and to keep any warping from happening. Or at least that's my theory Here's a shot of the rear arms all wrapped up. I really dig the factory arms re-purposed to make the traction bar setup. Got the chassis out of the way so I could put the body on the lift. This is allowing me to raise and lower it the countless times to notch the floor for the k-member and other misc stuff. Notching out the floor for the frame bits in the way. Getting the body on and close to where it will live gets me a couple things. First being the ability to locate the pedals properly. I tried my best with the body off. I got it very close but it will need a little finess to get it dialed in perfect. Second is steering column. That will be after pedals. Then after that I will focus on getting the body mounted. So far so good, haven't had many set backs which helps for moral. I'm digging being able to work with the body again. Feels like some good progress!
GR8 project !! I LOVE A V8s, you're doing a good thing here. The cyclekarts are interesting & cool too. I'm watch'n ......Flatheads 4 ever.
Awesome project. Great job on thinking through, and working your ideas -- Just read all the posts, will be following along.
I too think your front joint on the rear suspension is not going to work as you think it would. It might work for a while if you grease the threads and leave off the jamb nut. Think about it, as one wheel goes up over a bump, the whole wishbone will rise on one side. That stiffy urethane bushing doesn't have enough give to let the wishbone twist. Get the Johnny Joint as said before.
Well, got the pedals located and in the proper location. Took a bunch of figuring but I got it. I'll need to make a new linkage set, the old stuff is just worn out. I'll do the final linkage and adjustments when the main engine is in with the clutch all together. I don't have a right angle drill here at the shop so when I pull the engine and trans I can drill and bolt up the brake and clutch pedal bracket. This location of the pedals will still allow (barely) for the anti-chatter rod to be used in the stock location on the block which is nice. Body is just rough cut for now to clear the pedals. I'll tighten things up before I do sheetmetal work later. Here's a quick shot of the clearance between the block and firewall. I wanted it close, and it's close. I won't be running the factory pump. That will be electric under the body on the frame rail. I would like to do gravity feed but I only have about 0.5lbs of fuel pressure with the drop I have, fairly certain that wouldn't feed the three 97 carbs it will have. I picked up this steering column about a year or so ago. So I'll use this minus the wheel. It's 18" diameter is way to big. I pulled the 3 on the tree stuff off as well. Tossed the steering column in and roughly set it in place. Put a box in the car to sit on and get a general idea of how it feels. The degree on the steering wheel is right in the middle of 2 other rigs I have that are comfortable to drive so it's good to go using the existing drop column mount. I just need to make a ring/spacer to clamp it in place. I'll need to make a mount for the lower portion as well. I tossed the shifter on to also get a feel for things. Made some engine noises and shifted some gears to put a smile on my face.
Now for the steering. I went ahead and put the front end together. I had bought a Vega steering box many many years ago for 50 bucks here in my neck of the woods. I had plans to put it on another rig but sold that. I figured that would be a very good little box for this size and wight of car so I went ahead and made a bracket/plate for it to mock it into place. That went as planned, but then I ran into an issue. The issue being I had a Vega arm in my collection of parts that didn't fit. Some may know this but I'm putting this out there because it seems to not be widely known. There are at least 2 different spline counts for the Vega boxes. The standard being 36 spline. Mine however is not, and after some research I found this one is a 32 spline. I found one source for this pitman arm and that was from Roadster Supply. Everything I could find on the parts websites and Speedway and others were only 36 spline. Zero options when I searched for 32. If someone can tell me exactly what the 32 spline Vega box came in that would be greatly appreciated! Here are the 2 side by side. The new one is stainless steel, is a top mounted TRE and a full taper, not double sided which is nice. Did some quick measuring and figured out my tie rod length and drag link lengths. Ordered the kits from Speedway for the tie rod that comes with the tie rod ends. The passenger side TRE with the eye for the drag link comes in contact with the radius arm as you can see in the photo. Had it been cast the opposite of what it is I'd be okay. I have come up with my own fix here for this though. I will make a bung for the tie rod end, put the 7 degree taper in it, drill the hole in the DOM tie rod and weld the bung in. It's the best solution to keep it simple, keep it looking correct and to use off the shelf parts. I don't mind custom, but when your out of town and broke, custom is hard to replicate. Next steps are to set the car at ride height, bolt up the tie rod and set toe in. After that I'll set the steering gear box at the proper height. I'll slide it back and forth with the pitman arm on till I get the drag link to be about 1/2" away from the tie rod with the tires straight. I'd like the drag link and tie rod to be fairly parallel with each other if I can. Time to get back out I the shop!
The Jalopy Journal
