Hot Rods My full race flatty 6. First fire video.

Your post got linked to the mopar flathead forum and somebody asked about what converter you are runing for the Powerflyte?? Wondering if the engine idle speed and the converter are going to be fighting eacho other. Both at idle and till the engine gets into it power curve.

 

Whuuuuuuuutttt!!!!!!!!!!

 

Currently, im running the stock converter. I have no idea how it will act until i get a drive line hooked up, and drop it into gear. Its going to be interesting. Might have to find a converter with a higher stall speed.

 

The cam grind was the only one that delta cams had for this motor. The base circle is almost non existant. The lifters sit so low in the block that i almost couldnt get a wrench on em to adjust.

 

All right. I just got an Email off to Delta with the specs for my Dodge to see about a cam like that for mine. Thanks.

 

How streetable is that cam likely to be? These are low rpm motors.

 

Who cares about street? Not me. That's what I have a truck for.

 

That is Bitchen! How about a radiator and some coolant I started to get nervous watchin ya run it with that hose just hanging.
Dave Hitch

 

Rich, I meant to ask the OP the question. Just wondering how a motor cammed like that would work on the street.

 

No idea, but i guess ill find out!

 

What valve lash are you running? My cam was advertised at .410" lift. When I measured it it was dead nuts on. .410" lift minus the .014" lash equals .396" lift.

If your cam is advertised at .550" lift and your lash is .020" (not uncommon for a cam with that much lift) your actula lift could be .530". What valves are you using? Are the valves recessed at all? Any valve to spark plug clearance issues? Did you cut the valve seats deeper into the block? I am using shiverlay valves in my engine with stock valve springs.

 

I'd like to learn more about the Chevy valves. Which ones, and do the valve seats and guides need to be changed?

 

Yeah. I was kind of wondering about springs also. My four must be different than a six, but coil bind is coil bind no matter what. A .550 flathead cam is like a .825 lift cam for a rocker arm engine with 1.5 to 1 ratio rockers. Thats Pro Stock stuff. Must have Battelship springs. What are you using? Did they come from Delta?

 

I hate to be a naysayer, but I'm going to bet that the cam does not have .550 lift. I'd like to see the cam card from Delta or have Delta tell me I'm wrong - which I'd be glad to be!

I've never seen a flathead/flat-tappet profile with that much lift. Also, it is really hard to imagine that Delta cams only had ONE cam for this motor - and this was it. Once you get above .425 - .450 lift on a flathead profile, the amount of lifter rise per degree of cam rotation becomes so great that it is really hard to keep lifters tracking on the cam -- so things want to 'bounce', ugly harmonics develop, etc.. On modern roller cams (where they do have profiles that lift like this - and they have rockers), they have HUGE springs with an unbelievable spring pressure on the nose and at max lift -- cams made with over-size journals and 8620 or even 9310 steel billet cores, heat treated --- you get the point.

On the Isky 505 experimental cam that I have for a flathead ford, its max lift per degree of rotation is .013 . . . anything over .010 is a real issue. Unless this ".550 lift" cam motor has super light (titanium valves), super light lifters, monster springs, etc -- I have serious doubts that a .550 lift cam could work.

Rich Fox: Let us know what profiles they come back with and what size of base circle the profiles require -- would be nice to know for ALL flathead projects!

 

Sounds nice, but I agree with Holeshot, do not run engines with out cooling SYSTEMS. A fresh engine with a new cam has to start quickly and maintain a 1500+ rpm run for 15 min. for cam break in. The hi rpm ensures lots of oil splash to the cam and lifters for lube and cooling. Good luck.

 

Just curious why you chose to use the PF instead of moving up to a 904. Certainly no converter issues with a TF.

.

 

Id be interested in knowing as well. I bought the motor with the valve train already installed, so i would be interested. I was told it was .550 lift, but then again, i could be wrong.

Ok, so i pulled the head, and put a feeler gauge on one the the valves .460 lift.
Sounds much more reasonable.

 

What did you use to measure the lift?

 

Lookin' good! Damn I need to get out to the garage and get some work done...You're puttin me to shame!

Something to consider with these flatheads and big cams,

would the spring pressure requirement and valve float be less of an issue with such a low rev limit? (around 5000 even fully balanced)

I would expect most other motors with that much lift to be built to see much higher rpm's

 

Jeez, this thread is raising all sorts of questions. On the MoPar flattie block, is it OK to paint all of the machined surfaces over where the manifolds mount? If so it sure would eliminate a lot of masking.

 

I think that if you could run an air flow bench on a flathead Dodge with the head in place you would find a cam with 300+ degrees off the seat, necessary for that lift, would need to run at 6500+ RPM to flow well. Which it wouldn't. Usually most of the restriction is in the transfer area between the valves and the bore. Small enough to have high compression and it won't flow. Big enough to flow and you have no compression. Life with a flathead.

 

sorry, got confused. Not a feeler gauge (duh) a dial indicator

 

No shit. You either get good flow and no comp, or high comp and no flow

 

awsome

 

I think once you get the timing set and the carbs tuned and all the nessary steps completed you will find it will mellow out and be great a very drivable. An engine that has crossed wires or bad wire or improper ingnition timing will sound mean as hell but not run worth shit. I have fired new engines and thought (what the hell did I build?) but after tuning and adjustments it comes around and is very user friendly and mellowed right out sounding nothing like it did at first fire.


I have an Isky cam that he made for the Packard 8, The specs are .
intake timing exhaust timing
duration: 238 deg. duration: 238 deg.
open 10 before tdc open 48 before tdc
close 48 after bdc close 10 after tdc
cam lift .376 cam lift .376
valve lift .364 valve lift .362
valve lash .012 cold valve lash .014 cold
overlap: 20 deg.
Timing is set @ 20 deg lifter rise.

Now with that said. this is a good grind. Sounds mean and preforms too. I used some small block chev valve springs on both the ex and in.
The spring pressure closed: In 100pounds Ex 80 pounds closed. This is a good mean grind with out getting in to ramping problems.
I Measured the overlap and the exhaust starts to open when the intake is .120 off the seat and closing. The cam has no base circle left. I had to send a lifter to Ed so he could do the proper grind on the base circle to get the lifter not to bind in the root of the shaft.
There is not enough roof clearance in the head on the dodge to accomadate the lift you described, if the valve travels that far and to close to the head you dramaticaly decrease the air flow over the top of the valve. I have 6 months of build time on the above mentioned engine. With sevral hours of porting and port matching on each port. There are many things that could still be done but really how mean does it have to be before the line is drawn. Total investment for the engine was 6500 bucks and all the work was done at home by me. So with all the info I resarched over the last few years and all the work I put in the engine, I can safley say I am a bit of a inline flat head guru. So this is why I doubt the specs you have on the engine and say the rough idle is caused by improper set up.Now this is just my opinion and thats all. So keep that in mind before getting all bent out of shape.

Here are some specs for a Ford flathead race roller cam. The springs had a closed preasure of 550 pounds. It is a full roller all home made and still holds records at the salt.

 

Oh dont worry, im not anywhere near getting bent out of shape. This is my first build, so any advice is welcome. I put a dial indicator on the intake valve, and gross lift is aroud .460, not the .550 i was told. I bought the motor with the cam installed, and a bunch of boxes of parts, so the info iv been giving is just what i can figure from the parts i have, and what i was told. Im really hoping that once i get the other carb dialed in, and everything set up properly, it will settle down a bit. Its bad ass, but it could also be a pain in the ass

 

Holy! That is one cool Flathead six.. wish mine was that nice.. again thanks for the post... and glory.

 

that is one mean 6. i'm glad moparkevin brought it back to the top. made my day!!

 

Hahaha. You are welcome my friend!

Yea, im happy with how it turned out. Sounds wicked, mean, nasty, and outright evil.

Perfect

 

That has to be the Madest 6 I have ever heard!

Nice job man.......

HC.