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Projects My new 40 coupe

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Busmania, Oct 21, 2022.

  1. aussie57wag
    Joined: Jul 13, 2011
    Posts: 673

    aussie57wag
    Member
    from australia

    Cool car. Whatever you do don't make another cookie cutter street rod out of it. It's way to cool for that.
     
    WC145 and warbird1 like this.
  2. 31 Coupe
    Joined: Feb 25, 2008
    Posts: 478

    31 Coupe
    Member

    That one is PERFECT
     
  3. Nice score. Don’t let the shiny paint guys get to you. This car tells the story of it’s life. Anyone with a fat wallet can have a shiny car. Good luck, be safe, take us along for the ride.
     
  4. catdad49
    Joined: Sep 25, 2005
    Posts: 6,837

    catdad49
    Member

    As you Already know, this is Not a VW! Lots of great advice here, just pretend that it is a VW in the sense that it's a Project. Parts do the same thing, but they are very different. Small steps, take your time and ask questions Before you Need to. Looks like a nice Bus, Enjoy!
     
    chryslerfan55 likes this.
  5. 22008282_10105706405379767_2966726725032093772_n_10105706405379767.jpg IMG_3161.jpg

    If you want to nail the stance in the front, here's "the secret sauce" this is what was under the sedan I built.

    47" king pin to king pin dropped axle. it's about 1.5" narrower than stock, tucks the wheels inside the fenders. I got mine from Chassis Engineering but they don't make them anymore, but several companies still make this axle.
    Corresponding narrowed spring from Posies. I believe it's the spring for the 35" perch width.
    Split the wishbones, as it's necessary for a narrowed axle.

    I ran 500/525 16 firestones but in retrospect they were too small. I'd go with 550s.
    Front Pete and Jakes Sway bar.

    Also, F100 or Lincoln brakes on the front are a nice upgrade.

    Do all that and it'll sit low and drive well.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2022
  6. Busmania
    Joined: Oct 16, 2022
    Posts: 172

    Busmania
    Member
    from Denver

    Ftr, I was mostly joking out of frustration about welding nuts when I put it all back together. New hardware or refurbed (chasing threads) hardware will make going back together much easier.

    Dan hay. Thank you! That is the kind of info I need. Including tire specs Too. Thank you! Car looks awesome.
     
    hotrodharry2, Outback and Dan Hay like this.
  7. I forgot one detail. You'll need to heat up and bend the spring perches on the wishbones if you go with the narrowed axle and spring. Kinda hard to explain, but as you narrow the triangle that is the wishbone, the perches will not longer be parallel with the spring eyes. You heat them up to cherry red and straighten them out. I can give more detail if you go that route.
     
  8. I actually have one of those CE axles and the CE spring that goes with it sitting out in my garage. The CE springs are rather stiff.
     
  9. Dan's sits just right. I got the same result with my 39 with a slightly different formula. I used the front axle and wishbone out of a 35-36 Ford. it will bolt in and uses the same spring on all pass cars from 35 to 40. But the 35 36 front axle and wishbones are different from the 37 to 40 in that the wishbone perches in the axle and the wishbone itself are narrower than a 37 to 40. The front axle is that same width, but there is more distance between the wishbone mount on the axle and the king pin. I Had the original ford axle dropped by Jack Fuller about 4 3/4 inches total, and narrowed up to 47 in the process. This let me run the dropped axle and Posies reverse eye spring with out having to split the wishbone and get the same drop. Also, if you can locate just the 35 -36 wishbone that is useable, they have the perch bolt width at 36 3/8 inches wide, which is what most aftermarket dropped axles are set at for perch spacing letting you bolt an aftermarket dropped axle into the 35 36 wishbone.

    IMG_4270.JPG
     
  10. flamedabone
    Joined: Aug 3, 2001
    Posts: 5,682

    flamedabone
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It sucks that your frame is boogerd by the bottom cowl, but wow, that cowl is nice and rust free. Nice solid little car, keep with her, she's gonna be fine.

    -Abone.
     
  11. Where your frame is messed up on the passenger side cowl must be common because my sedan had a 'rip' in the top of it in the exact same place. It wasn't nearly as bad as yours. I just pounded the metal back down flat and welded it.
     
    chryslerfan55 and hotrodharry2 like this.
  12. D Newcomb
    Joined: Oct 14, 2020
    Posts: 420

    D Newcomb

    This Avitar is a '39 shell lowered onto a 4dr chassis/floor pan. It fit perfectly! inner rear wheel wells are 4dr. TIP has urethene single stage paint for around $100 a Gal. So build cheap and WIN! Newc
     
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  13. Busmania
    Joined: Oct 16, 2022
    Posts: 172

    Busmania
    Member
    from Denver

    Making progress. Got the engine out and partially disassembled. Having a hard time with the one head. Anyone have suggestions? Also, does the front pulley need to come off (how???) to get the timing cover off?

    it’s pretty sludgy on the top end. I’ll probably get to pulling the pan off later today or tomorrow.

    do any of these photos provide clues as to what I have? It has domed pistons. Is that normal?

    my daughters been home sick all week and she’s feeling better so she helped me out too.


    46D6DC03-77B8-4710-8906-A6E152D56640.jpeg 50713882-DC49-4752-A57A-E05196E40B91.jpeg 34DD3C70-D479-4F68-BB34-1B8024A7BF14.jpeg 487E7C6F-80DF-4E14-A6B5-F6B8B54B4BFD.jpeg D2551514-6F66-4287-BC0D-AB16AD1A1C45.jpeg B1604F29-A56F-45B0-B54B-16A048C80630.jpeg B9C2ABFE-55DD-4DB3-95B4-EA147FE10BCC.jpeg A1145ED5-DFA2-4E7D-9F0C-F4E4A5AE6A9B.jpeg B6B727BA-B3DC-4D10-845F-1AEDAC82DC93.jpeg 7F063519-C0A1-44B5-BE57-3446E959CE76.jpeg
     
  14. Spooky
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 2,475

    Spooky
    Member

    WHAT A SCORE!!
     
  15. If you can't get the head off by tapping it pretty hard horizontally around the edges some have had good luck with removing spark plugs and feeding in rope into the cylinders and rotating crank with a breaker bar. The rope squishes up and pushes it off from the inside.
     
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  16. Busmania
    Joined: Oct 16, 2022
    Posts: 172

    Busmania
    Member
    from Denver

    Yeah I saw the rope trick last night on tv. But my issue is this motor will not turn over.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2022
    Atwater Mike and Outback like this.
  17. Busmania
    Joined: Oct 16, 2022
    Posts: 172

    Busmania
    Member
    from Denver

    Oil pan off. Pretty sludgy. Still won’t turn over and no obvious signs of failure. From what I can see the cam looks fine. 2 of the 4 cylinders that I can see so far definitely have rust in them. Absolutely zero ridge at the top of the cylinder wall though.

    C28D1F58-8C25-4C9D-9337-29C909752CEA.jpeg DF9C769B-8089-4D1A-8F9E-9F295629B0A6.jpeg AA2074C8-BE3F-4C69-91FF-74CC0C7B7249.jpeg D23811AE-495D-4821-8CDB-7B38884E833A.jpeg 6FDD685F-FDDF-4B9C-B1CB-5FF72BA13F77.jpeg
     
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  18. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 22,162

    alchemy
    Member

    Stock, unbored, 40 engine. You will find it has tin sleeves from the factory. See the small ridge where it folds over at the top of the cylinder. There used to be a replacement piston size made to fit right in after a guy removed the tin sleeve and honed the block.
     
  19. warbird1
    Joined: Jan 3, 2015
    Posts: 1,263

    warbird1
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Original 1940 85 hp engine, note the small welsh plugs in the pan rails. I'd start pulling rod caps until you can get it to turn over; at least that will let you determine which cylinder/cylinders are stuck.
     
  20. It could be stuck in the cam/lifter area as well, with the gears still meshed.
     
  21. I always wanted to make an adapter that had a grease fitting in it that would screw into the plug hole to be able use a grease gun and hydraulic the head loose. That would only work if the valves were already closed or if you cut the valve sprngs off and were able to pull the valve closed on the cylinder you were pumping grease into.
     
  22. Busmania
    Joined: Oct 16, 2022
    Posts: 172

    Busmania
    Member
    from Denver

    That’s a great idea. In theory even if the valves were open eventually the grease would fill the piston cylinder too eventually forcing the head off…maybe. I have an idea I’m going to try tonight which involves a slide hammer and a hollowed out spark plug. We’ll see. I’ll take photos!
     
    chryslerfan55 likes this.
  23. Even if you can get it apart and things look OK, you really need to inspect the block for cracks.
     
  24. Busmania
    Joined: Oct 16, 2022
    Posts: 172

    Busmania
    Member
    from Denver

    Yep, I plan to tear it down completely and have it cleaned and inspected by a machine shop before I decide my next move.
     
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  25. I hope I'm not too late, but go easy with the slide hammer. The spark plug area of the head CAN be busted if you go gorilla on it. It would be best to give it a couple of whacks and move to the next hole. Do all four and repeat. First step is to soak the hell out of the studs before you get physical. If it moves at all, keep the penetrant flowing!
    Good luck...
     
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  26. joel
    Joined: Oct 10, 2009
    Posts: 2,665

    joel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If alchemy is correct (I have no reason to think he is not), those tin sleeves are about .041 in. thick. If you remove them, you have a roughly .080 over bore which means you could possibly use 239 +.020 or +.030 pistons . Disassemble carefully and good luck.
     
  27. Busmania
    Joined: Oct 16, 2022
    Posts: 172

    Busmania
    Member
    from Denver

    It’s alive! And by alive I mean it now turns! It took about four hours of cursing but I got the head off. I used a hollowed out spark plug with a bolt through it and my slide hammer to get the seal to break. This was not as good of a method as I was hoping for as the bolts I used kept breaking but it was enough to get half of the seal broken. From there I thought I was home free. Boy was I wrong! After getting the seal broken, it still took another 2 hours to get the head off with a combination of heat, hammers and other tools I’m ashamed I used (but no damage done).

    From there, I started removing pistons starting with the ones I suspected were the cause of the engine not moving. 2 cylinder walls were rusty. I removed 4 pistons so far and it now turns over nicely. One valve is stuck open so I started soaking with penetrating oil.

    At first look without measuring anything, everything looks pretty good. A small groove on one of the crank journals is the only problem I’ve found visually so far. The groove at the top of each cylinder is very minimal. I’m torn on where to go next…do I totally disassemble and clean it and the build it or do I hone the cylinders, fix the stuck valve, put in new bearings and roll the dice that it will run? I’ll probably go the rebuild route but I’m tempted to put it all back together. Thoughts?

    647B196D-9CE7-4650-A7F2-BF3A17E5C832.jpeg 1B7F61D0-E57B-4C5D-BC3F-2736115E03FD.jpeg 0A646567-47C7-4ED4-8D95-25B7A429B458.jpeg 5A876D26-A589-44CB-9329-C6E6BBE8F9EA.jpeg
     
  28. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 22,162

    alchemy
    Member

    If you aren’t going the full rebuild route, don’t spend money on bearings. And, properly fitting rod bearings is not a drop in situation for a ‘40.
     
    warbird1 likes this.
  29. Awesome car
    Doesn’t even need painted
    Lucky!
     
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  30. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 3,609

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    My suggestion is let the engine tell you what it needs. Keep stuff clean and in order.
    Find original literature with the "specs". Original Ford or say vintage "Motors Manuals" are great for this. These will give you basic clearances.
    Use "mash gauges" aka plasti-gauges to check clearances.
    Ford Tractor restoration sources may have valve seat grinding, valve grinding sets....It's worth a look.
    It's possible all you may have to have is rings. If the clearances check out. You can fudge a little but not too much.
    It may be fine after a honing, rings, clean-up and a valve job.
    Get the factory manuals.
    Flatheads are so simple they are plumb complicated so remember that. It's like nothing you have worked on before.
     

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