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Projects My new project: 1932? Chrysler 3w Coupe

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by rschilp, Jun 21, 2011.

  1. sygreaser
    Joined: May 5, 2010
    Posts: 132

    sygreaser
    Member
    from SO-CAL

  2. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 5,478

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    Definitely keep the fenders. I'd even keep a hood. I mean, it opens to reveal the Seagrave, doesn't it? :D

    Have you had any thoughts about wheels and tyres? It's a common problem with rodding larger cars of this era, the sorts of wheels and tyres that are commonly run on the front of an early Ford are just too small for the bulk of something like this. Too often such cars end up with the sort of barge-on-little-wheels vibe one would rather associate with something like an '81 Lincoln Town Car, especially if one goes for 15" wires or such in an attempt to get some kind of "classicness": it all ends up very unconvincing. These cars need tall wheels and tyres, and not too much sidewall.

    Te maklik, ja. (My ancestors spoke proper Dutch, though :D)
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2011
  3. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,349

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    I always like to have a hood, then just remove it when I want to.

    Lengthening the frame a couple of inches would help, and you could also then lengthen the hood, fenders and running board. This is what I was going to do.

    If you don't want to do that, you could run the radiator horizontally between the frame rails, and recess the firewall. 6" isn't that much to try and gain. In addition, look and see what can be removed from the front of the engine, and relocated.

    I love this project! When you're done with that second engine, don't forget to ship it to me!;)
     
  4. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 5,478

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    [​IMG]

    This shot isn't a straight side-on view so it's hard to judge, but it looks like the front edge of the running board is a short distance forward of the mid-point of the wheelbase. I'm taking that as a marker for the A-pillar. I'd be curious as to what the actual dimensions are, if you happen to go by the car with a tape measure about your person ...

    These aristocratic cars work well proportionally when the A-pillar is close to the mid-point of the wheelbase. In light of that I think you'll be able to accommodate a 6" stretch without ruining the proportions, in fact hopefully enhancing the proportions.

    Now, while we're talking aristocratic, take a look at the recent Hawaiian-look thread. A slight channel in that style might not go amiss, though you're pretty close already. You'd want no more than a few inches in height between the fender crowns and the reveals at the top of the hood sides. And then the grille shell should not be sectioned but dropped between the rails a bit.

    I think the stretch and slight channel would go together quite well. What do you think?
     
  5. kisam
    Joined: Feb 28, 2005
    Posts: 1,922

    kisam
    Member

    Subscribed! This is going to be cool!
     
  6. rschilp
    Joined: Sep 17, 2009
    Posts: 678

    rschilp
    Member

    Not planning on a channel, but may have to flare the quarters a bit if I decide to keep the "rollers" I just put on.

    The a-pillar is 8" ahead of center, so if the idea of one of the earlier poster is right that would work.

    I think I can find the space, move the radiator (not the shell) 2" forward and reverse the cowl and I have an extra 7 or 8 inches, all I need. Only problem then is the height, probably need to loose the double distributor tower and replace it with a single, or put an EDIS system on,

    Thinking about putting some light coil over shocks in the front to balance the increased weight.

    The 9" axle I have is perfect in length, about 1" narrower than original rear.

    Think I'll use some 1947 buick taillights.

    Trans to be decided, T5?
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2011
  7. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,349

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado


    I love what you have planned for this, but have a couple of concerns.

    I think you'll need more than some light coil over shocks to handle that engine. What does it weigh, 1200-1500 lbs? I know the 906 weighed in at 2200lbs!

    I haven't seen the torque specs on the you 508 engine, bit I seriously doubt that the T5 tranny will handle the torque. That thing will be a torque monster!

    Looking forward to seeing this progress.
     
  8. rschilp
    Joined: Sep 17, 2009
    Posts: 678

    rschilp
    Member

    Engine is about 1138lbs, give or take a few ounces. Upgrading the leafs and some coil overs should do just fine, probably with some additional work on the frame ;-)

    The T5 torque is my concern as well, but I just happen to have a stack of those laying around, worth trying it out, I would prefer to use a "modern" 5 spd maybe an NV4500?
     
  9. rschilp
    Joined: Sep 17, 2009
    Posts: 678

    rschilp
    Member

    Picture updates, some quick progress right now, but need to get onto some other projects, both my wife and son are complaining that I'm not working on their stuff.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Locomotive Breath
    Joined: Feb 1, 2007
    Posts: 710

    Locomotive Breath
    Member
    from Texas

    Nice find, I like it.

    I think you need a really big one these.:D
     

    Attached Files:

  11. rschilp
    Joined: Sep 17, 2009
    Posts: 678

    rschilp
    Member

    Still spending a bunch of time on this car, removed the clutch/pressure plate from the Seagrave engine today. The bolt pattern of the pressure plate is a dead match for a pressure plate from a BBF, so that makes it easier to find a replacement.

    Purchased a 1997 NV4500 from a Chevy 3500, that should be able to handle to torque of this beast, with some good gearing and synchronized shifts. Matching the trans with a hydraulic throwout bearing, a ford pressure plate and a standard 1 1/8" 10T clutch disc in 11" and the bellhousing (2 pieces) from the seagrave and a transmision installation should be possible.

    The pilot bearing OD in the seagrave is HUGE, like 2" so finding or making a pilot bearing for the NV4500 shouldn't be a problem.

    The peg leg 9" I have for it will need to get a limited slip and maybe some different gears, I've got several sets of 3.50 gears, but I think I need to get some 2.80 to 3.00 gears to make the power band a bit better.. but the 3.50s will work fine if I can't find a cheap set of other gears.

    Did some planning for space today, will have to get rid of the twin distributors for sure and may have to do something about induction, maybe fuel injection? 6 stacks sounds like a good idea.

    Thinking of turning the exhaust manifold around so they exit at the rear of the engine, instead of at the front as they do right now.. but that's a question to answer once the engine is in.
     
  12. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 5,478

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    It'd be a pity to lose the traditional engine bits in favour of electronickery. Is there another way to rig a distributor set-up? Would it be possible to fabricate a manifold for multiple carbs?

    Have you got any pics of the engine?

    The way frames usually taper the manifold flip might well be advantageous.

    Edit: found a pic, see what you mean. The exhaust manifolds are on the valley side, and they aren't symmetrical. Moreover it looks like there might be liberal siamesing of ports, which rather defeats the object of bundle-of-snakes headers out the top of the engine. My own inclination would still be to fabricate a complete new manifold that discharges the exhaust at the left and right upper rear corners, together with an intake manifold for four 2" SUs.

    The distributors are sitting on some sort of housing; is that a gear drive for driving two distributors off one shaft? Would you be able to lose that if you run a single distributor? And would transistorized ignition on a single distributor give the same ignition performance as the dual distributors?
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2011
  13. rschilp
    Joined: Sep 17, 2009
    Posts: 678

    rschilp
    Member

    There are detailed pics of the engine here: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6697873&postcount=85

    Intake ports are siamesed, exhaust is not. So there are 6 intake ports and 12 exhaust ports. Because I have two engines I have all pieces double so I can do some fun stuff with the manifolds.

    The gear drive for the dual distributors is huge, I've taken one apart and I'm looking at how to possibly make it into a single distributor, not an easy task.

    For now I'll leave the manifolds on and see what I got once the engine is in the car, will be able to make more educated decisions after that.
     
  14. FoxSpeed
    Joined: May 19, 2009
    Posts: 385

    FoxSpeed
    Member
    from NorCal

    I just found this thread this morning. I appauld your steadfastness to use the V12 in a rod. You dealt with a alot of unsolicted advice, well meaning advice, as well as lecturing by a few. You handled it all with grace and class.

    I am going to subscribe and look forward to your build.

    Congrats and good luck..Gary
     
  15. rschilp
    Joined: Sep 17, 2009
    Posts: 678

    rschilp
    Member

    Painted the first parts, the engine is going to be Pontiac engine blue ;-) should go well with the planned exterior color.

    Got the passenger door to open, it's a 1932 based on the vin number, now I can go and get the car inspected for completeness and apply for a title.

    Did a little work on the gearing to see where I would end up with the new trans and the tires I have on it now, needed to determine best gearing for rear-end 3.00 gears seem to be the ticket.

    OK, back to the shop now :)

    [​IMG]
     
  16. rschilp
    Joined: Sep 17, 2009
    Posts: 678

    rschilp
    Member

    Pulled the seat yesterday and cleaned the interior from about 2" of dirt. The floors are shot and will have to be completely replaced. Luckily the subframe is in really good shape, so putting in new floors is a pretty easy and straightforward task. The wood in the cab is dry rotted, some pieces beyond repair so I guess I'll have to get some oak and start making dust.

    The drivers side door bottom and sill plate are completely rotted away, while the passenger side is in perfect condition. Both easy fixes, they are just straight pieces with a 90 degree bent.

    Removed the tank to make it easier to get to the axle. I guess that needs a few patch panels :D or maybe those are the factory vents? Probably will just make a new one, the shape is nice and easy, should be straight forward to make.

    Just pulled the rear axle out this morning, with help from my son, and measured the spring pads... big surprise they are exactly the same distance apart as the 9" axle that is taking it's place, 43" c/c, lucky I guess.

    So now I need some new u-bolts, clean up the spring pads and shock mounts and get the 9" in.

    Been looking at prices for a limited slip and a set of 3.00 gears.. WOW, those are expensive, didn't expect that, it's been a while since I bought an axle.

    The NV4500 arrived as well, looks like it won't need a rebuild, after looking at it I think I'll use the engine plate from the first seagrave engine, with the starter attached and the bellhousing from the chevy truck. I ordered the Ford pressure plate and 11" chevy clutch yesterday so those are on their way. The trans I bought came with a hydraulic throw out bearing, so that's going back in.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. GaryB
    Joined: Dec 19, 2008
    Posts: 3,529

    GaryB
    Member
    from Reno,nv

    interesting project,like your attitude.get'er done.....:)
     
  18. James D
    Joined: Feb 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,939

    James D
    Member

    Very interesting stuff.
     
  19. rschilp
    Joined: Sep 17, 2009
    Posts: 678

    rschilp
    Member

    Been making some progress, not on the car but on the pieces to make it go ;-)

    Engine is coming somewhat apart, to make it easier to load into the small engine bay, got the intake/exhaust manifold off.
    The huge distributor is off as well. Working hard on getting the trans mocked up so I have a complete setup before I load it into the car.
    The engine plan is changing a bit, doing an EFI setup with a 6v92 blower on the front.

    The rear axle ratios is going to be 2.79, because that's the gears I have and they give me a nice performance ratio with the huge torque from the "blown?" v12.

    So overall plan is coming along, not taking the car apart just yet, but as soon as the parts are in I'm getting the rear end mounted to it will roll.

    Thinking of adapting a disc brake setup to the front, I'm a little concerned about all the weight and the original brakes that are impossible to find parts for.

    Keeping a much more detailed build log of the current activities in the engine thread.
     
  20. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,288

    F&J
    Member

    I think parts are available, but you are right, they won't be enough brake.

    I did disc on a 30 Mopar axle about 30 yrs ago. I used stationary fixed 4 piston calipers from a 72 Dart. Then turned the spindles down to accept the donor wheel bearings, and had to shorten the snout and rethread it.

    The spindles had a centering hole on the back side to be used on the tailstock "center" on the lathe.

    Early Dart brakes are too rare these days, but you can do some scouting for another donor.
     
  21. Rehpotsirhcj
    Joined: May 7, 2006
    Posts: 1,534

    Rehpotsirhcj
    Member

    Damn that's a cool looking coupe!
    hoodless, fenderless, and any color but black or yellow.
    Cant wait to see what you do with it.
     
  22. rschilp
    Joined: Sep 17, 2009
    Posts: 678

    rschilp
    Member

    I'm thinking of buying one of the kits that are available everywhere, ford rotor and chevy caliper and then either turning down the spindle or making spacers.. Cheapest way to go.

    Sorry, fenders and hood are staying. Hood sides are going.
    Color is likely going to be blue.
     
  23. rschilp
    Joined: Sep 17, 2009
    Posts: 678

    rschilp
    Member

    Question on brakes, would like opinions.

    Disc brake kit? Easy, cheap, works great, but ugly.

    Lincoln front drums? I've got a full set, easy to build, looks better.

    Which will work better? Which one should I go with?
     
  24. Nice find Rob, keep us updated
    One thing is for sure, you wouldn't find this in Holland :)

    Hennie
     
  25. MoparFinman
    Joined: Feb 6, 2011
    Posts: 366

    MoparFinman
    Member
    from Okla

    Hey build your car the way you want But Please don't put a Chevy in that car!!!:(:(
    Run a MoPar !!
    The coupe is very cool.
     
  26. MoparFinman
    Joined: Feb 6, 2011
    Posts: 366

    MoparFinman
    Member
    from Okla

    Rust hope has kits for your axle if you are using them, for disc brakes.
     
  27. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 5,478

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    Did you read the thread and somehow miss the Seagrave? How does one miss an engine that size? :eek:
     
  28. rschilp
    Joined: Sep 17, 2009
    Posts: 678

    rschilp
    Member

    Very true, believe it or not but 3 window coupes are not very common here either, especially ones in this shape that I can afford.
     
  29. rschilp
    Joined: Sep 17, 2009
    Posts: 678

    rschilp
    Member

    I've got several engine choices ready to go, including a wedge and a 426 hemi, but all those are as boring as an sbc compared to what I'm doing for power in this car.
     
  30. rschilp
    Joined: Sep 17, 2009
    Posts: 678

    rschilp
    Member

    Well got the supercharger and rear end pieces in today, ready to make this thing roar.. ok that'll take a while.

    The rear axle will allow me to roll the car, making it MUCH easier to move around and get to the DMV for the title inspection if that is going to be needed.

    The blower is huge, will need to make some adjustments to it, because it turns the wrong way, but should be no problem to flip the front plate around (I think ?)

    After I get the title paperwork taken care of I can start taking the front end apart and remove the original powertrain, then it really get's interesting.

    The thread documenting the Seagrave engine seems to have been deleted, don't know why, so I'll be documenting both my engine and body build in this thread from now on.
     

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