As many of you know, I have a '67 Chevelle station wagon in addition to my '50 Buick (which is what I usually post about on here) and my '65 GTO (which has also been typed about occasionally). The wagon is a daily and a mild 327 lives underhood. Since I drive it so much (or at least I have while I've lived in SoCal, might be different in Mpls.), I wanted a new motor for it. I've set up the suspension and brakes under the wagon for road racing (seriously!) and the only thing it lacked on the road course was horsepower. For me, this was criminal. But, with the foundation solid, I was ready to screw together a simple small-block. I had some specific needs I think many HAMBers could relate to, so I'll share some points on the buildup. I have a heavy car (3,700-plus) so good torque was needed. I am indeed a cheap *******, so I wanted it to run on 87-octane gas. It needed to stay cool, and it needed to make enough power to make me happy (which I estimate is about 40 percent more than normal people require.). So, I decided on the tried-and-true 383 formula, with good heads, a solid roller cam (I actually LIKE setting lash), a single four-barrel carb, and typical electronic ignition (MSD w/ a 6AL box). I went with AFR 210cc CNC-finished heads, and had the chambers, ports, and valves coated by Calico Coatings with their thermal barrier coatings. I topped the heads with an Edelbrock Performer RPM Air-Gap intake, and slid an HVH tapered 4-hole spacer under a Demon 825cfm carb. My target numbers were 450-475 hp, and 440-460 ft-lbs of torque. I wanted it done by 6,500 rpm. I set compression at 9.75:1. It was dynoed on 87-octane, with dyno headers and 3-inch in/out mufflers. Typical stuff. It peaked at 541 hp at 6,300, and 480 ft lbs at 4,300. I was shocked to see a number so high, and especially from such a "mild" buildup. It idles nicely at 750-800 rpm, and will be backed by a late-model (Z28) T-56 6-speed trans. (versus the original Powerglide still in the car now). I don't have all my notes handy (as I'm in the process of moving now), but if anyone wants more specifics about this suprisingly powerful little 87-octane small-block, PM me and I'll get it all together for ya. It wasn't cheap to build, but it'll last forever and make great power on cheap gas. That's what I was after... Scotch~!
Jesus! That's cool. I'm getting a '67 283 from a guy as soon as I can get my *** up there to Savannah and pick it up. I plan on making a high winder out of it. And I'll probably wanna leech some of your info....as usual.
that's impressive! I've heard rumors about solid rollers having trouble surviving in street use, something about lack of lube to the roller...have you researched this and decided it won't be a problem? Could be that that they only fail with really high valve spring loads...
uhhh...he said it is a 283! Man thats awesome numbers for pump gas...now really ..what kind of cash ya talking about?? Did you buy a 383 blocksetup from PAW ?
When you're ready to build that "high winder", I've got some clues for ya...and maybe much more. Don't expect it to idle much below 1,100 tho- but you'll love what I can do for ya up high. The lube issues are normally caused by one of two things (or both..LOL)...the older lifter designs didn't move much oul around the lifter body (between the lifter and the bore), and many builders were religious about restricting flow to the top end by adding restrictors to the lifter galleys. I'm running Comp's new solid rollers for the street (designed to oil and lube effectively) and I chose not to restrict flow but rather to improve drainback by cleaning up the various flow routes and using a louvered windage tray in the pan (as offered by Milodon). This keeps sufficient lube at the pump pickup and I chose a stock pump (rather than an HV or HP unit) so pressure is steady and not overkill for this street setup. Less power is also required to turn it, but that was barely a consideration for me. The block is a factory '85-newer 4-bolt truck piece. Nothing special. My expense came in the reciprocating ***y., which is not refurbished 400 stuff but rather a Lunati ***embly. The crank, rods, and pistons are all forged (for strength) and sold as a complete ***embly in pre-balanced form (complete w/ matching King bearings) so no balance machining is required. This is a lightweight (compared to stock 400 stuff) setup and the counterweights are nicely sculpted in aerodynamic fashion. Not cheap, I admit, but nice to know its pre-balanced (no further costs to install) and strong as hell. I also got ARP studs for the bottom end and the heads. Total overkill, I know, but I'm like that. Consider this- with all the killer bottom ends stuff, the motor is ready for at least a 200-shot of nitrous. I'll probably add a 150 shot for the occasional weekend at the drags or on the road course (where I may fill 'er up with Premium gas!) and have about 700 peak horses on tap without concern. That's why I overbuild like I do. It's ready to support that kind of power, and it'll only take pump premium to do it. If I'm worried (like if it's an especially hot day), I may even add a bit of octane boost or race gas to absolutely ensure no issues. But, I can still drive it home from the track and go back to 87 octane Monday-Friday. I think a good part of the power can be credited to the coatings. The hold the heat in the aluminum heads, insulate against heat on the way in (through the intake port and past the intake valve), and ****** the heat out (through the coated/insulated exhaust port to the header). For what it's worth, the AFR 210 CNC heads were untouched (I had AFR ship them directly to Calico for coating), although I did swap to the Comp-recommended valve spring (which was lighter than what AFR shipped the heads with). The intake was also untouched (installed as recieved from Edelbrock) and the intake manilfold ports are smaller than the ports in the AFR heads. I feel this may have helped more than it hurt, as the incoming charge fed into the highest-velocity portion of the intake port. I'd considered port-matching the intake to the head, but the mismatch wasn't too far off and I thought it'd be cool to see how things worked directly out of the box so others could more easily duplicate what I'd done. The only rework done on this engine included the typical clearancing required to clear a 383 crank/rod ***y. at the base of each bore, fine-tuning of the Comp Cams plastic cam ****on to acheive proper clearance to the timing cover, and minor t******* of the windage tray to clear the stock oil pump pickup. Otherwise, all the parts were run as they were delivered. I spent much time researching what would work best with this particular combination. The 210cc CNC head has a great port and chamber, which were enhanced by the coatings. The sizing was right on for this displacement. The cam is no too big either, and the Performer RPM Air Gap intake is a tall dual-plane with plenty of plenum and a great design for good velocity when teamed with this head/cam. The homework paid off. I think the 825cfm carb is the "right" size, meaning I don't feel a larger carb would make more power, especially in the critical midranges. A smaller carb wouldn't peak as high. (I got the removable venturi sleeve carb so I can test this on the road once the engine is in the car). It will be dressed with ribbed valve covers and look sedate in my old wagon. Typical 4-bbl SBC. I may experiment with the new Demon Tri-Power setup down the road, but I'm not sure yet. I have to pay off this stuff first. I'm going with a '60s flavor on this wagon (6-spoke wheels, bullet-shaped side mirrors, Hurst-Olds inspired gold/white paint scheme w/ black scallops, T-handle shifter, etc.), so the Tri-Power and ribbed valve covers would suit the style. Time will tell. Scotch~! Scotch!~
Those are really impressive numbers! What kind of torque was it making? Should be plenty to move that wagon around. I really like Lunati's stuff...but I know that rotating ***embly wasn't cheap.
Scotch, My brother and you would get along like peanut-****er and jelly. He loves doing all of the things that other guys hate to mess with. He is into all of the details of a good build. And loves doing all of the little things that, when added up give you better reliablity and more power. Things like electric fans and water pumps etc.. He is constantly telling our friends that they are over-building and over carbing their engines. There seems to be a certain machismo when it comes to bragging about engines and a lot of folks tend to fall into the trappings of the more is better philosophy. That's fine and dandy in most cases but if you don't want to be re-building or constantly retuning your car every week then that's not such a good thing. And there is a lot to be said about what qualifies as streetable. Bro would rather build one engine that lasts over two or three that are running on the ragged edge. Of course he is always building his engines for more (or should I say fatter) torque rather than HP. Being a Pontiac guy that avenue always seems to be the most natural one to explore. And you can't deny the seat of the pants kick you get when you have a mountain of torque on tap. Also, he is a 100% advocate for the juice too. Especially after spending a weekend in the pits with Arnie Beswick. If I ever got a bug up my **** to build a SBC - you're the first guy I would call upon. But me building a car that calls for a SBC is unlikely at best. I will never say never though......
Scotch, Thanks for the engine info! While I really like reading hot rod magazines and websites, they often lack information on how to make the car "hot". I'd really like to hear what you have to say about putting together a high-winding 283. I put one together for my '31 coupe, but I'm always open to new ideas. After all, the engine hasn't been fired yet and it wouldn't be too hard to take apart and put back together Thanks, Ed
Here's some further update info on this 383...I neglected to answer some questions while I've been busy, so I'll do so now. The camshaft is a Comp Cams XR286 grind- Part Number is 12-772-8. Valve lift w/ 1.5:1 rockers is .576-inch intake and .582 exhaust. Duration at .050-inch lift is 286 intake and 292 exhaust. Lobe separation is 110 degrees. I ran Comp's PN 977 springs. Here's the dyno chart from the popular Westech shop in Mira Loma, CA. Remember, this is on 87 octane, through mufflers. No air filter, though. RPM TQ HP 3500 415.9 277 3600 416.0 285 3700 423.9 299 3800 433.8 314 3900 448.0 333 4000 451.7 344 4100 466.8 364 4200 473.1 378 4300 478.3 392 4400 485.7 407 4500 488.4 418 4600 493.6 432 4700 496.0 444 4800 497.7 455 4900 499.8 466 5000 498.0 474 5100 495.0 481 5200 494.9 490 5300 492.5 497 5400 490.4 504 5500 486.9 510 5600 483.9 516 5700 481.5 523 5800 476.9 527 5900 472.9 531 6000 468.8 536 6100 464.2 539 6200 460.2 543 6300 454.3 545 6400 446.6 544 So, there ya go. I like AFR's 210cc CNC head w/ Calico coatings, this Comp cam, and the Edelbrock RPM Air Gap intake when used in conjunction. If you want a kick *** SBC, this combo works well. I bolted it into my '67 Chevelle wagon yesterday, and it's mighty healthy. I only wish I didn't have the original (67-era) converter and Powerglide behind it...not to mention the original 10-bolt. I've yet to really push the engine hard, because that greasy 'Glide just won't take it. I've got a T-56 lined up to replace it, and a Ford 9-inch for the rear...THEN I'll finally get to have some REAL fun! Like playing with the 150-horse nitrous setup...LOL!! 700 horses on 87? It can be done..on a daily driver, even if its a station wagon. Mighty sleepy indeed... Scotch~!
rear shot - Car has lotsa Hotchkis suspension goodies, big brakes, adjustable shocks, and 17x8s on all corners.
Last look - this is how she handles cones at 51mph (average through this course)... Should be fun with 545 hp and 6 gears... Scotch~!
Been reading some of your posts and thought you might have some good advice for me. I am doing something similar in a 64 Impala 4 door. It's been shaved and blocked about 4 times now ready for paint. The 327 is bored .40 over and I've put in a balanced 350 crank and 262 extreme energy comp cam. Intake and exhaust are much bigger now, I forgot just how much. I want lots of torque, as you know this car is heavy. ANyway I'm thinking about the 625 Road Deon carb, but after reading some of the comments yesterday I'm not sure???? Thanks!
very impressave numbers there dude got a 400 SB i will be doing in spring still not sure what it will go in but was only going to try for 400HP one Qs how you like a MN winter?
you should have put a flathead in it, it would have been cooler!!! ah ha ha that is awesome. ROLLER CAMS ARE THE **** - i just wish they weren't so expensive
Heh, I gotta 401 nailhead that's just beggin to be built up Scotch style. I do expect that since I will be donating the motor I get to keep all the good stuff that gets put inside it. And I expect it to bolt right up to my ST400 that's waiting to be installed. Dang it, where's the wink wink nudge nudge lil smiley face at?
Guac~ I like your combo for reliable power, and all you'll need to see it shine is a bit more stall in your torque converter. This will let the engine rev up a bit more before you get rolling, and the engine will be making bigger torque with the additional rpm. You should have a 2,500-2,800 rpm stall to really wake it up. Make sure the trans can take it or you'll kill it. A 3.55:1 or 3.73:1 rear gear ratio would help too. My engine makes plenty of torque down low, but yours needs a bit more rpm to see good grunt. A little more converter will go a long way... Scotch~!
The T-56 is in, and I'm waiting on the 9-inch to get here. The trans swap went in smooth as a liquored up ***** after a gang bang, and the shifter placement couldn't be better. I've decided on a DTS 9-inch with the A-body suspension brackets already welded on so my Hotchkis stuff will bolt right up. I went with a TrueTrac diff and 3.73:1 cogs. I can't wait to get it in. I also rethought my fuel system engineering (it's still stock from the tank to the pump and it won't keep up with the rest of the combo) after I saw this trick little unit: www.racepumps.com It'll bolt in the stock location and is capable of feeding more motor than I'll ever have. I'm going with pre-bent 1/2-inch hardlines from Cl***ic Tube, and I'll have the regulated return line feeding into the fuel filler neck. I'm also working on engineering the nitrous to work with this pump setup and require no additional baloney (like a dedicated pump or tank). I'm having a new stock tank fitted with 1/2-inch fittings and a little sump pickup (resto tank with a Compe***ion Engineering sump kit). It'll replace the stocker exactly. I'm also considering a "retro" exhaust option, but I don't know if I want to share that here yet since I haven't made up my mind. It might be kinda gay but it might be really cool too. I have to change something because my existing headers (from the old 327) don't offer enough plug clearance to the angle-plug AFRs. I have to pull the headers to change the plugs, which isn't going to work for me. It was okay temporarily to get the car running, but I've been looking for options ever since. I'm looking for a set of fenderwell headers (if anyone has a set for an early Chevelle with a small-block I'd like to talk) and after that it's going to get really wierd. (heh heh)... Damn I love this stupid wagon. Once I finish paying for all this, I want to get some Yokohama A032R street-legal race rubber for it. My Nittos are great, but the Yokes are even better. They won't last too long, but they'll grip like crazy while they're on. This wagon is going to INVADE the twin cities this summer...Lots has happened to it since I split Cali. Scotch~!
wooo hoooo were going to porky's in the wagon.Yes the hotrod grocery getters are taking over porkys hahahaha.
I think I have a set of ****** super comp fender well headers for a 64 nova. I dont know if they will fit. I will look for them if you think they will work. Jonney
Wow! Impressive. I've been looking at all the options for doing something similar, although less $$ for my 66 Caprice (also pretty big and heavy) Now if I can only get some cash together to get started... I'll definitely have to come back to this when I get there.
so you didn't use the 327 block, you started with a fresh stroker set up.. (or a basic 4 bolt 350 and did the upgrade? I am jealous of the power you made.. Dont you have the supersized Pontiac motor going together also???
Yes I started with a fresh '80s era 350 4-bolt truck block (R/H dipstick) and upgraded from there. The block was a freebie from a friend who had it from a previous Camaro project he sold to buy a new Cobra Mustang. The price was right....I had my machinist give it the full treatment, knowing it would have to deal with my madness and having a bit left over from the "block" fund. He double-checked everything and touched all the surfaces to ensure straightness and trueness to angles. I had him do all the bottom-end machining with the new ARP studs in so that'd be perfect. It's as good as I can make it. The 327 went to a pal of mine for helping me swap 'em out and he's the same guy helping me with the hot rodded Buick Straight 8. It was easier than paying him cash... The monster Poncho is about to fire as soon as the offset roller lifters show up. Crower says they're on the way.... I finally got everyone else paid off, and the trick rockers (offset shaft-mounted 1.7:1 full rollers for a true Pontiac) about slayed me. They are killer though...I still would have paid double what I did for them... (and it would have taken even longer to get it lit...) ...but the T&D stuff is pretty awesome. I've never owned stuff this killer...I've always seen it on "customer" stuff...and wished... Here's a note- It's really tough to build 3 custom engines at once. I kept trying to get them all going, and it wasn't until I stopped on two of them to truly focus on one that anything got done. Now the 383 is complete, installed, and running great- the 601 Poncho is painfully close to getting lit and dyno-tested, and the 263 (now 283...) Straight 8 is on the right path. I know some of you guys are building 2 or 3 cars at a time...and I am too, but nothing was going anywhere until I did this. Now I'm going to be able to enjoy the wagon while using it to chase parts for the other two. I've learned my little lesson, and juggling 3 car projects is as impossible as juggling 3 girlfriends. Eventually, it'll bite you in the ***...in a bad way. But it's cool seeing them progress and finish up. My expectations for the Poncho are pretty high, but since the 383 exceeded my goals, the Poncho should too...right? Look for a post on the "Ten Liter Terror" (601) results soon. We'll see how we do... Scotch~!
The Jalopy Journal
