My son Justis and his pinewood derby car...We need your help!

My son Justis is in Tiger Cubs and we are getting ready to do his pinewood derby car. I remember doing mine with my Dad when I was a boy, so I have been looking forward to this since he was born. This is a major father / son thing for him and I, so I want to go way overboard and make his the best in the pack!

It would be cool to make a HAMB friendly Pinewood Derby Car.

You guys got any cool ideas for us?
Any photoshop gurus out there?

 

If you want him to win, I remember I painstakingly cut a Lamborghini Countach out of my block of wood... must have been aerodynamic or something!

 

I did one with my son years and years ago,,I used some axles that did not have the ridges like the nails provided in the kit...also used some powdered graphite so officials didnt see oil on them..Axles and wheels make the winner,not the shape of the car

 

Weight is good!
Wheel to axle pin "fit" should be close, so no chatter.
Aero, aero, aero! Fender skirts, slightly rounded nose, great fun this!
Rear pic of the Chet Herbert Beast III run at Bonneville.

 

Last year my son and I built a 32 ford 3 window, this year he wanted to do a 30's style Indy car. I will try to remember to snap a couple pics and post them up tonight.

 

I still build them and have my own home made two lane "dragstrip" to run them on.
I can't ever seem to get all four wheels on them to touch the ground...
But I don't care since if one wheel isn't rolling on the track, that lowers the rolling resistance by 25%!
I try to make it a rear wheel that's high since the front ones need to be rolling to "steer" the car between the center curb.
Other than that, I have one car I call "The Brick" that's just an uncarved basic block right out of the kit box, that's just painted and the wheels put on it and very few cars have ever beaten it, except for the one Wife made anyway....

 

There have been a few pinewood derby threads here on the HAMB. Use the search tool for pinewood derby.

 

Me and my kido did this in Jan.
I went all out and bought wheels that are BSA wheels that have been turned down with a lathe to make them run smooth, als bought axles that have a groove in them so that there is less friction. We also ran the car with the left front wheel free wheeling and not on the ground. Also it is best to balance the car, 1 1/2 inches from the rear axle balance on your finger. Add as much weight to the rear of the car, the a little on the front to balance it out. The more weight you have on the back of the car will push it a little more when you get to the bottom of the ramp.
If you need any more info PM me
thanks RC

 

Agreed, the powdered graphite was a big key to the winner my late Grandpa helped me build. Also, we cut it down into a wedge shape, but maintained the weight by drilling underneath and inserting fishing weights for a low center of gravity.

Good luck!

 

One of my sons car was about as aerodynamic as a brick with a Lego guy in the cockpit. He came in third. Like Pitman said...Wheel to axle pin "fit" should be close, so no chatter. Nothing is more fun, but don’t make it look like you built it. I lost count how many cars came in looking like Fred Carrillo built them. My sons by the way. Jacob-Eagle Scout. Isaac-Life Scout, working on his Eagle. Have fun. Slim


http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=449873&highlight=pinewood

 

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=553078
That's a recent PWD thread. Check out the pics of my son's car.
There are some pretty good ideas in there.
Also, as LOWCAB suggests, do a forum search for Pinewood Derby.
Good Luck and feel free to PM me for suggestions.
Jim

 

Holy cow! Jack pot!

 

I has at a friends house and saw a pinewood derby car tethered so that it would roll on a motorized 5 gallon bucket. When I asked what I was looking at, he said that the wheels rolling about the outside of the turning bucket was to lap them in. Don't know if it worked but I've seen some outlandish stuff on NASCAR cars too.

 

My dad and bro and I built a bunch of hamb friendly cars when we were young. I'll get some pics tonight. The 3 wheel tip is a good one.

 

With four sons spread out as they were, I got to do this a bunch of times. I won 4 times out of 6 attempts at the council level. Not den, not pack but council level! I read everything I could get my hands on and contacted past winners as well. I became convinced that it had nothing to do with aero or weight distribution (well almost nothing). It had everything to do with axles, wheels and placement. Wheels must be perfectly round first of all. Dremel, lathe or drill to spin and sand but lathe is best. I also sanded to get a ridge in the middle of the wheel to reduce rolling resistance. Finely polish the axles to a mirror smooth finish, but do not sand them. You mush avoid shimmy at all cost so the axles need to fit almost perfectly in the wheel holes. Another speed killer is the bottom of the car hitting the raised center of the track when it comes off of the steeper incline to the more level part of the track. Imperative that you have sufficient clearance below the axle for this so this is another reason not to take too much off of the wheels when trueing them. Axles must be perfectly parallel to each other. Each time the car hits the raised center strip, is time lost and friction added. Each adjustment is critical because there is so little room for error. Finally, I used teflon lube on the axles which actually bonded to the metal and was not detectable by the judges because you only needed a micron thick layer over the polished axles. I dont even know if that stuff is still around but look for it. Make sure the wheels do not get too tight against the body or too loose. Both will contribute to wobble and that kills speed. The fastest cars at the national level are precision smooth machines. Dont forget the heads on the nails that are used for the axles, the underside of the heads needs to be mirror smooth as well to prevent binding on the outside of the wheel hub. Anything that isnt smooth operating is drag. I let my boys do their own bodies because I was convinced that bodies had little to do with the cars performance and I proved that to be the case. Finally, the max weight has got to be precise. Gravity drive is driven by weight so dont come up short there! Good Luck!

 

Wish I had more for you, but fwiw there's a decent book at amazon.com and my bil bought some thing to use your drill as a lathe to smooth the tire mold lines. There's websites that sell all sorts of stuff like that including super duper graphite and he got an indycar body as well.

Anything worth doing is worth overdoing. I'm jealous man, I'd love to go nuts on one of those!

Does the bigfoot lodge in LA have them sometimes or did I make that up? Anyway super cool man, please keep us posted!

 

We cut out a 29 model a roadster for this years race.

 

You'll see in the above referenced thread some of the cars I've done including my deuces. There is a ton of advice to be found out there, but in general I've learned two things. Wedge shaped "cars" (as they don't really look like cars) seem to do the best. Also, Pack and District rules vary significantly, and often one rule is the wheelbase must not be changed. However, this doesn't mean the wheelbase can't be moved! (Big difference) But follow the rules...you'd be amazed at the entries that don't meet spec. and can't race because the parent didn't take the time to read the rules.

I have two sons so we've run the race including the Father's race with lots of cars. My son's science project this year was effect of speed by way of weight placement on pinewood derby cars...so we've done some research. Polished axles, trued tires, graphite, tracking straight, max weight (5 oz), 1 tire higher (if allowed) etc should go without being stated.

Anyway, if you have any questions I'd be happy to help. I've helped or run our pinewood derby for the last 8 years. And since my car is sorta HAMB friendly I'll take this opportunity to post this year's entry into the Father's race. (We still have to follow all the rules). Unfortunately it almost won the cautious driver award.

 

the powdered graphite was a trick my old man showed me. I remember He helped me carve one out and when it was finished it looked like a sprint car. wish I still had that.

 

I wish my son had not packed his away in the attic somewhere years ago. We carved the block to look like a severely chopped and narrowed (think single seater) three window Deuce lakes type car. Polishing the axles and trimming mold lines off the tires helped a bunch, as well as the powdered graphite lube.

If you use the round, roughly 3/8" storebought weights, be sure to chuck the body in a vise before drilling the holes in the underside of the body. I still have the roughly 3/8" round scar in my left palm from holding the car in that hand will drilling with the other. New drill and new bit cut through the pine a little faster than I could react.

Above all, have fun with your son. I hope my future grandkids will be into this too, I kinda miss it!

 

I made this a few years ago for a local radio station which holds derby contests for adults. I used pine instead of balsa and actually had to hollow the entire bottom side to make 5 oz. GOOD LUCK!!!

 

also, check these guys out... http://www.pinewoodpro.com/

the wheel shaver for truing the o.d. of the wheels is pretty helpful as well as the axle polishing kit or speed axles already done. Also, try and use tungsten instead of the lead. It is smaller and more dense.

 

HA HA I remember winning second place in the late 60's with a copy of the red baron..1st place was a semi truck and trailor

 

Another trick is after polishing the axles, chuck them in a drill with the wheel on and apply graphite. Spin the axle while holding the wheel still. Keep adding graphite and hone them in. My dad and I built a car that won first every year that I was in cub scouts. It was wedge shaped and as thin as could possibly be. Then hollowed out on the bottom just foward of center and all the weight it took to get to 5oz was placed here. Axle spacing, polishing, and trueing were all done as well as beveling the wheels to have a narrower contact area. When the cars left the line, the others would usualy beat it to the bottom of the ramp but as soon as it got flat it passed em like they were standing still. Our pack made us build a new one every year so I just duplicated it and brought the old one along to prove it. Man I miss those good times

 

We did a C-cab type with his name on the side.

The stars were to keep track of the races won (ran out of room).

1. Don't use the pre cut slots for the axles they are never true. Flip it over and drill your own using a drill press.
2. If you are running on a good track, you can raise one of the front wheels or even eliminate one of the the wheels all together. I raised one wheel very slightly but kept it for looks and stability. (bumpy track)

3. Make sure you car is at the max of 5oz of weight

4. The CG (center of gravity) should be approx. 1.25 inches in front of the rear axle. Farther to the rear could make it too unsable.

5. an entire section could be done on wheels. Trade around to get a matched set they have numbers on them for what mold they come out of. Then make them as light as possible.

We took first place and set a new track record.

 

As a leader I also made a car to race. We had a small pack to we were not super rigid. I build a 34 highboy, what a slug did the axles all wrong when i installed them. the next year was a 65 mustang fastback. Used balsa wood to build the fenders a roof all attached to the block, that car was fast. The last year we a old style racing midget. i had a lot of funn I hope you and your son have a great time no matter what you guys come up with to build.

 

We got best in show 30 years ago but you have to get the best lane of the two to win.Maybe differant now but one of the lanes was much rougher in our meets. Ya takes it and likes it and ya keeps your mouth shut. Son still has his cars from the years we competed. Little chief was the car (pontiac firebird)the year we won, fishing sinkers for weight,I always put them forward

 

After getting the weight exactly right, it's all in the wheels and axle nails. They sell wheel truing kits at hobby shops. Get one and use it in a drill press. I sanded the surface of the wheels with fine sandpaper, then rubbing compound and then put wax on a rag and rubbed that in while the wheel was spinning. Also make sure the inside of the wheel where it can contact the wood body is smoothed the same way.

Chuck up the nail in the drill press and polish it. They have kits in the hobby shop for that too, but you should have stuff in your garage which works just as well. Again, i used fine sandpaper, compound and wax. Also, get a cut off wheel in a dremel tool and cut out the "casting flash" on the inside of the nail head. You can hog out the inside of the nail head too to reduce the contact area with the wheel to reduce friction, but get it smooth. I've read that you should only have 3 wheels touch the ground, but I always had 4 touch the ground as I thought it would track better. Drill pilot holes in the wood on the drill press so the nails will go in straight for "wheel alignment".

By the time my younger kid was in his last year of Cubs, I was burnt out on helping with those cars and we just used the unshaped block of wood and painted it like a brick chimney. That car won evey heat until the younger brother & sister helpers who brought the cars back to the top of the track smashed it down too hard and cocked one of the wheels. It just showed that aerodynamics didn't matter. They had an adult division so I bought a pre-shaped chopped Model A looking wood kit and did the wheels & axles and smoked the braggy guy who had won the year before. Use whatever lube is "legal". We started with graphite, but the rules changed to use the white stuff a few years later. Put the lube in the wheel axle holes and let it soak in for a few days prior to installing on the final car.

 

Holy Crap, that looks better than most of the 1 to 1 cars that I have owned!

 

LOL!!! thanks! I probably could of restored one in the amount of time I have in that one...