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Back in 1964 when I worked at the start of fair,for Michell selling his new then "Iornizing Ign." at the Worlds fair in NY NY,yes the same inventor that had worked for Mallory ign . when it started,he told me about one he did years earlyer that fired each cly coils off cly PSI by a switch made like a sparkplug. Actully had many conversions with him about old hotrodding as I worked for him. But he had no photos,so don't know how it looked.
I have a dim memory of that or maybe some other 8 coil setup in an old magazine. I believe the switching was complex but simple...I think the guy used a stack of normal (capless) distributors with each driven off the nose of the previous ones, presumably resulting in a separate point unit for each. I think that slab of aluminum off the generator mount is a support for something like that. Mental meandering: Stock distributors had 2 points each, but one would have been phased wrong for individual use...so maybe HC or other ducoil type with phasing that would have fit proper intervals. He could have used a setup with one set of points for each coil, OR maybe one set could fire 2 coils with each firing twice per cycle, once at ignition time, once firing dead...doesn't Harley work thus?
never seen anything like it, was this idea borrowed from an aircraft design? radial engine maybe? I can see it working with an eight lobe cam at the crank snout with eight separate sets of points..?
Yes bruce, Harley's do have duel fire coils, and they also can have single fire coils. On a duel fire it fires the spark plug twice one on compression and one on exhaust stroke. Iv used both and I belive it runs smoother with single fire. Some say smoother with duel fire. He could of also made a crank or cam trigger type firing system. As in he could of machined a new cam for a distributor with many more lobes and use like a v-12 or bigger style airplane distributor. With maybe 4 sets of points firing in a duel fire pattern. Or hell even 8 sets of point to fire each coil. I would love to see more pictures of this set up. These guys that came up with this stuff were way ahead of their times but then again kids these days wouldn't ever think about this kind of stuff. It's sad where this world is going. Kids don't have to think anymore they just google it.
However he did it, the one I remember used multiple distributors to get enough point sets...could have been done with either 2 or 4 Ford based ones. The aluminum bar supports the idea that this one was done that way, supporting the front of the ignition stack down at cam level.
Dana Barlow, just to tell you I went to the same school in NYC as the Fonz did. McBurney Prep School. Never knew Henry Winkler, he was about 7 years older than me. I'm still a big fan of Happy Days. The guy in my class at that school was Richard Thomas, better known as John ' Boy ' Walton.
Well hell if guys can stack 6 engines in front of each other I can see how you could stack 4 little distributors. It almost looks like you can see them stacked in the pictures since the wires are all over the place down there. What about vacuum advance?? I guess he could of plumbed that separate too.
It works on a 2 cylinder because the cylinders fire 180 out. I can see it being a little more difficult with an 8 cylinder, not impossible but more difficult. Actually most of the old 2 cylinders bikes were dual fire.
"wasted spark" ignition is used on lots of newer cars...coil packs fire every engine revolution....not a big deal.
On the Harley coils, the secondary winding is not grounded at the coil. One end goes to one plug and one to the other. So if one plug wire falls off you lose both cylinders. Also the current travels in the unfavorable direction on one plug, which is supposed to be harder on that plug as the electrons jump from the ground to the center electrode, or something like that.
Blowing it up didn't reveal any secrets. You can go here for the source and fiddle around enlarging it: https://revslib.stanford.edu/catalog?f[event_ssi][]=Third+Annual+National+Autorama&f[model_ssim][]=Ford+Model+A&view=detailed
In the attached file, you can make out not one, not two, but THREE distributor bases, all stacked up, one atop the other. Since 3 distos don't divide up an 8 cylinder ignition very evenly, I'd put money on there being yet another distributor base - just out of view in that original photo. The all-thread and jam nuts can be seen fairly clearly as it runs from the disto nearest the engine block, on thru the next (and next?). A lot of spinning stuff hanging out there. Whew! And quite frankly, as nice as the rest of the car looks, the distributor part appears half-done.
Can't help with the ignition, but to the headlight question, they are Electroline lights probably model 2200 and are rare and spendy now. Mick
I remember a similar one or set in my dad's collection but I can't remember if they had the parking light on top.
You have to remember that dual point ignitions were used so you could have TWO coils. This allowed more time to recharge the coil at higher RPMs. Coil design has improved so much that we forget what the old days were like. This guy just carried the idea to the extreme.
The all-thread probably clinches it as the same one I saw pics of. It also pretty well clinches the role of the aluminum bar as a truss holding up the quivering rack of distributors so the front one isn't dragging on the ground... Distributors shown were of course Ford dual point/single coil Mallory patent type, so either each distrib is working two coil firings or simple rephasing (as in Harmon Collins) was done so each point set in each distributor could separately switch a single coil. I think the picture I saw, which was clear enough to spot all-thread, was in a '50's HRM yearbook or the similar Fawcett books.
The headlights are Electroline 2200's. Had a pair on my 32' roadster, very art deco! I Know they came on some American Lafrance fire trucks 1937- 39. I see them on E-bay once in a while.
On the way to El Mirage there is an old Roline 805 V8 engine that was used to pump irrigation water at one time. The motor has been replaced with an electric motor but left on it's stand in the field. I stopped to look at it many times. One of the cool things bout it was the distributorless ignition. eight sets of points. each set running a coil on plug. Fires once every other revolution. Guess they didn't want plugs fouling. It also had a 55 gal oil drum above it. Gravity flow through a float and needle system when the oil would get low. Big pipe coming out of the ground into the carburetor. I guess natural gas. OHV with intake and exhaust in the center. Bet it is still there.
Harley's do Not fire 180° apart. Rear Cylinder fires then 405° later the front cylinder fires, then 315° later the rear one fires again. (Now in reality on stock Harley's They plug fires in BOTH Cylinders each time, it's called wasted spark origination, so when one is firing on the compression stroke the other is a useless spark that occurs when the exhaust valve on the other is still open.)
No timer...that's a stack of '42-48 Ford distributor bodies. Stutzer's blow-up is clear enough for positive ID.
What is the pulley in view above the dist "stack"? No crank pulley but a belt from gen to "maybe" rh water pump....
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