Ok ,,, are Both temps in same Location's Or 1 in head Other @ thermostat? If one in head ,other @ thermostat should be two different readings, Witch is Higher , I ask all this is because I Run all you show in 3 different A & 32's 1 full hood 2 with zipp's with mechanical fans 1 with Electric fan 2 engines over 650 hp 1 roots set up on 10:1 compression All 32 Rads, 1 rad is Walker F H radiator on chevy V8 , all W Zs
I have always made it home has gotten to 230. I think all air is out. Ran a little cooler with holes on freeway. Pulls a lot of air through rad evey on low. Timing is 12 at idle 31 total and controlled by ecu. Has done same with 3 different engines and tunes. My 34 truck has a chopped 32 alum. Rad runs just above thermostat with ac. I am thinking will try alum rad. Just do not know 2 row big tub or I see 4 rows? Then maybe the Zip
Verified the temp with another source? I’ve seen gauges read wrong. Got a hand held thermometer? fresh built engine?
First, is the fan turning in the right direction ? Probably is, but thought I would mention it. Second, the fan shroud you have has a lot of holes in it. I would think that when the fan is running, it probably draws a lot of air thru these holes that doesn't pass thru the radiator. I would try plugging these holes with some tape and see how it affects your problem. I would also check around the edges of the shroud where it fits against the radiator to insure there are no big gaps there. The fan can only draw air efficiently thru the radiator if the shroud is sealed . The holes may look nice and add some strength, but I don't think they work well with the fan. (MHO) One other thing, you might try one of those infrared heat guns and point it at your radiator hoses ......top and bottom and see what the temp is entering the radiator and leaving the radiator.
Add 4-5 degs , cheaper then Rad !! It might Like 17-18 degs BTDC my blown I run 26 BTDC From experience if TDC is actually correct , SBC like @ least 15-16 , Total will / would be another Tunning task .. Even stock over what book says from OEM
Somtime Flaps over holes work in conjunction at idle and open up at highway speeds , Depends on how the shrould is designed and yours is pretty square & Flat !!
I have a 31 with a 383 and a Walker Z rad. Fan shroud has a 13” electric fan and no holes. Never gets past 195 degrees. I would try plugging the holes and see if that makes a difference.
If your readings are correct, it is not getting to a proper operating temperature. You will not be doing your engine any favours by running it that much cooler. Engine efficiency (both power and fuel usage) is optimised at the recommended operating temp. Running cool can also increase wear levels because the clearances and tolerances are also designed to be where they should be at the correct temp. It can also mean that condensation and impurities are not burned off properly. I always find it funny that people think that running their engine as cool as possible will protect it and extend it's life, when the truth is that it can be doing the exact opposite.
Its not that simple. Something you have to consider is the effect of heat on the oil in an engine. Late model engines run higher temps in order to meet emission standards. They have a computer monitoring the engine temp and they make continuous changes to timing and fuel in order to control emissions and keep the temp in a certain higher range. Its watching a lot of inputs and even has knock sensors because sometimes those elevated temps have a narrower margin between making power and and making parts separate. On our older engines, simply running at elevated temps also gives a thinner margin for preignition/detonation with no knock sensors to tell a computer to pull some timing or enrich the fuel. The oil also has less of a margin before it may also be problematic because the hotter it gets, the less protection it can provide. Look at GM's 6.2 Liter LT engines. While there may be some kind of manufacturing problem, it looks like the most of the over 700,000 vehicles being recalled will begin relying on a thicker viscosity oil to cure the problem. The higher operating temps exacerbate the problem, but GM can't lower the operating temp without losing some of that gas mileage the EPA dictates. Personally I would rather take my chances on some problem that might occur due to an engine running at 185 degrees than one constantly at 220 degrees. No matter what temp range an engine normally operates at, it has to accept that some things will be better and some things will be worse. I figure that more bad things have a chance to happen more often at higher temps than at lower (appx 185) temps. The lower temp problems, if they occur should be something that happens over a long time rather than in a short time frame as often happens with higher temps.
That's been mentioned a lot and it's a full load of crap. Yes, you might get a little more wear operating your engine at extremes (too cold or too hot), and you might gain a fraction of a percent of a horsepower running it colder (tests have shown up to around 2% in the most significant cases), but for hobbyist vehicles it really doesn't matter. Higher engine temperatures are primarily for emissions and economy. For those of us with hot rods that are primarily used occasionally, reasonably well maintained, and often more performance oriented, you're not going to notice any difference in engine wear or usable life over the life of the vehicle whether you run a 165 or 195 thermostat. It's irrelevant. If you notice that tiny fraction of mileage decrease, you need to put your foot into the throttle more often.
Those holes are great for freeway speeds to allow air flow through the radiator, but really reducing fan efficiency when the fan is trying to draw air, but is instead drawing air through those holes. Make up some aluminum or flat plastic flaps with hinges and rivet or screw the hinges so the flaps cover the holes. This way when the fan draws air it will pull the flaps shut, but at highway speeds the flaps will get pushed open.
Well first off flatheads tend to run hot and the Brassworks radiator solves that problem, second I installed a PCV system on it to keep condensation to a minimum and the oil is changed about every 500 miles since the car isn't driven daily. Most flathead sites recommend 180 degree operating temperature on a flathead V8 , I've run flatheads since the mid 60's and only problem I've ever had involved broken rods.
.125" rubber, pop riveted over the top of the holes, works good, easy fix. They will blow out of the way at freeway speed if they need to. I have read all of the posts and if that car isn't puking, it isn't sick enough to worry about. Gauges are not always correct, I have some SW wings (hecho en México) that are basically for looks. They say my flathead is running 230 degrees but the direct fit gauge on the engine says 190. It has never puked. Add a direct gauge to the block, it is nice to have as well as a direct fit oil pressure and fuel gauge. I have never heard of someone taking a copper/brass radiator that isn't plugged or leaking and replace it with an aluminum radiator, so it cools better. But it is your money, your car. Replacing stuff without a proper diagnosis is not the answer. You can put a zip riser on, mechanical fan, aluminum radiator, new thermostat, waterless coolant, bigger pulleys, etc, and spend thousands of dollars and you may fix it, and you may not. I recently saw the DR for some serious back pain that has been getting worse over the years. They scheduled me for pain management shots in my spine. That worried me so I got a second opinion from a neurosurgeon that came highly recommended. He said "why would they start treating something before they know what is wrong"? I am waiting on an MRI as we speak, and I am not going to return to the other DR. Your car issues are similar. You are seeking advice on the internet (not always a bad start, but the last time I consulted the internet for stomach pain it said I was pregnant) but throwing parts at a problem before you know the problem or even if there is a problem is not wise. It is what cut rate, grease monkey garages do. If you can't figure it out, see a specialist. Just my opinion. Thanks for reading.
This statement is surprising to me. You've never heard of this in your life? I've known a lot of people who have done this after eliminating other possibilities, most often with great success. It's really not that unusual. I know there's a hate on for aluminum radiators here, though.
@05snopro440 I think @Bandit Billy might be referring To Pre 40s unless weight saving or not available, @ least thats why I used Aluminum
No hater here. There is a 4 core aluminum radiator in my 442 and a Brice Thomas Aluminum in my HEMI 41 PU. Brassworks in my blown flathead roaster. I don't have an alloy prejudice. Aluminum is cheaper, cheaper is always better.
I never said that the temps the guy quoted were a major concern. As far as I am aware, everything I stated is correct, even if the difference it would make is small. You will notice that I didn't say anything about what he should run, and what extent of difference it would make. And, by the way, I never mentioned thermostat temperature rating at all, as it makes no conceivable difference to engine operating temp. The thermostat will only affect the time it will take for the engine to warm up to at or near it's optimal operating temp. If the guys flathead runs all day at or near 180* that is not a problem. If it runs a fair bit cooler a lot of the time, or takes a long time to get up to operating temperature, the engine will be seeing an increased level of wear (amongst other things). Small issues, but simple physics. If that is not a concern then people should, as always, do as they wish.....
15 years ago in need [I thought] of a new radiator as the copper/brass one in my car was pretty corroded looking, gradually running hotter and hotter [I had put AC in] and I was going to rebuild my car so I started looking at Aluminum radiators. Current radiator was [still is] cross flow single pass four row 1/2" tube, 17" x 22" core. Best aluminum I could find at that time was two row 1-1/2" tube, same core size; don't think they had double pass radiators then. I called two of the highest $$ brands and asked would aluminum be better than a new copper radiator? I gave a HP figure of 450 and was told, "" lighter but not even close in cooling"". As an intermediate effort [I had been trying all kinds of Mech fans] I would give a new thermostat a shot. 20$$, 160°. Same cruddy radiator and it runs at 155° around town, maybe 165° at 70mph in sixth gear. Maybe 5° hotter with the AC on.
A Brass radiator will transfer more heat than an aluminum radiator. I don't think most people would not dispute that fact. A Brass Radiator will cost quite a bit more than an aluminum radiator. I don't think most people would not dispute that fact. A Brass Radiator that isn't cooling an engine properly most likely has some other component(s) that are preventing it from being able to cool ............ Some people will probably dispute that statement..............but its often hard to pinpoint why the Brass is ineffective and during the change to an aluminum radiator apparently there is some change made that lets the aluminum radiator work fine. Its simple logic that if one metal is more efficient at transferring heat, it should be the best choice. If someone isn't getting the expected result, then the radiator should be the last suspect as to why its not working.
Aluminum vs brass/copper? Brass/copper sure is easier to repair. Try soldering up a repair in an aluminum radiator. Not all of us have the equipment or skill to weld up a repair on an aluminum radiator. And as the radiator ages I don't expect it will get easier to weld on either. Kind of "throw away" parts? Use it till it breaks, then scrap it and get a new one? (fyi, I'm running aluminum radiator in the A pickup, brass/copper Walker in my 47 coupe)
I repaired a hole in my aluminum super EZ JB aluminum repair. nothing to it brass vs aluminum for heat transfer? I know a guy that builds both. Excellent products. Needed a rad for a tight fit. Supercharged SBC in a Porsche. At the time he only produced aluminum. Gave his radiator scientists the hp, cubic inch… info. Said they couldn’t do it. Called Walker. Talked to their radiator scientist. Said they could. The walker was brass. But it wasn’t as much the material as the core size capability they had. Walke could build a thicker core at the time. The aluminum guy now builds both. His scientists say brass as a material transfers better. The one impedance to that is the soldier for the fins on the tubes. The other is core design. The aluminum rads they build have tubes twice the size of brass. So, a few years ago I replaced a working copper/brass with an aluminum. Did a engine swap and needed the ends in a different spot. So I had one built in aluminum the same size but different hose connections. Went from cooling a 350 with copper/brass to cooling a 500 with aluminum. The 500 runs 185 (too dang cool) the 350 ran 215 to 220. Never boiled over Both new hoses, stats, fresh builds, correct timing Same gauge. Same sending unit that’s my real world experience. both ran the same flex fan and no shroud
I tried regular JB Weld on an aluminum radiator, it worked for about a day and then started leaking again. But the damage was to the top tank, because of the way the support rod bracket was attached, causing it to oil can. So after a short time the oil canning caused the JB Weld to fail. I'm not sure JB Weld is fully chemical resistant to antifreeze either. But if it worked for you, good deal. In my case I had to take the radiator out and have it patched at a weld shop. If it was copper/brass I could've done the repair myself.
There is still a lot more to consider though. I'm assuming the 350 was a Chevy and the 500 was your Cadillac engine. Thats not apples to apples.......... One thing I suspect that was different is the compression ratios of the two engines. Most stock 500 Cads have compression ratios down in the 8.5 range which also helps keep engine heat and possible hot spots away. The 500 Cad I will be building for my 32 Ford will have the compression low if I end up with the 8:71 blower, but the actual cylinder pressure would be much higher..........similar to maybe 12:1. If I end up with the other 500 and no blower, expected CR is about 10:1. Either way I will have a sizeable investment in these engines, so I have already purchased a copper/brass radiator because I don't want to take any unnecessary chances on overheating. There are also other differences which affect how efficiently either of these engines cool. Simple variations in how the timing is set or even the thermostat thats used. I'm not knocking what you are saying Anthony, but its really difficult sometimes to pinpoint why something doesn't work when it seems to have better choices.......and then when a lesser choice is used........it does work.
^^^^^ Like @ekimneirbo said Apple to Oranges !! One of mine is 10.5-1 with close to 10 psi With Walker Z
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