Need cooling system advise - small block Ford

I am having trouble keeping my 41 cool and need to come up with something to cool her down.

Here is what I have;
351 Windsor small block Ford (stock 4 barrel manifold with a edelbrock 650 cfm only running an alternator no other accesories)
Using a 3 row Mustang radiator with a Zirgo electric fan mounted in front of radiator (for clearance reasons) I forget the cfm of the fan but it was the highest one they had (the chart said it was more than enough for the displacement of the engine)

She only runs hot on hot days and will run hot even on the highway when going 65+mph, if I am sitting a lights on hot days it trys to vapor lock (yes I am still running a mechanical fuel pump) but will smooth out once you get going. when the she is turned off the radiator/overflow tank boils over and pukes everywhere.

I tried messing around with the timing and it helped a little but not a lot. I tried some red line additive to drop the temp and once again it helped for a little bit but is getting worse again (getting daluted as I top it of every now and then)

So now I need ideas or radiator suggestions (I am leaning this way due to the fact that it still overheats on the highway at speed) brands/set-up anything at all

Thanks for the help

 

Two questions to help out others who know more then me. Are you running the front sheet metal to guide air through the radiator? Have you checked to see how the coolant is flowing while the cap is off and car is running? May be as simple as the thermostat.

 

I forgot to mention I had to remove the thermostat on the way to Viva due to it being stuck closed and I have not yet replaced it. I do not have a fan shroud mounted to the radiator.

 

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on" width="100%"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">Do you have anything at all in place of the T-Stat? IIRC, when we ran derby cars, we would take out the t-stat and place a washer in its place. Without the washer, the coolant was moving too fast to pick up any heat and the cars would run hot. With the washer, everything was OK. You might put a new t-stat in and see if that works before you spend big bucks.
Just a thought

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2 questions...
1) did it run cooler with the T-Stat in?
2) are you running a mechanicle or vaccuum advance on your distributor?

 

It sounds to me like the water is running through the radiator too fast. You either need to put a t-stat back in or restrict the flow with somthing else. You could use the old t-stat with the center knocked out.

 

also running 1/4 coolant 3/4 water will keep it cooler. also check the radiator cap. it might not be holding pressure. other than that, new t-stat. if that still doesnt work, 4 core aluminum radiator

 

Having a shroud does not answer the question of having the radiator core shrouded by the surrounding sheet metal, sides, bottom, and top forcing the air entering through the grille opening to go through the core rather than leak everywhere around it.
You say the fan is mounted in front of the radiator, surely you do not have a shroud surrounding the fan IN FRONT, do you? Have you looked into using smaller dual fans on the rear of the core?

I would reinstall a thermostat of 180-190 degrees then do a test drive. If the shroud is in front of the radiator core, remove it leaving the fan unemcumbered.
If the problem persists, using duct tape, and cardboard if necessary, tape off all air leaks in the sheetmetal surrounding the radiator and take another ride in the same conditions.

 

a 3 core barely handles my 351w too... elec fan on all the time, new everything in the car incl. waterpump and thermostat... still just gets hot when sitting and idling, otherwise does fairly good though. i got the highest cfm fan i could find too, but still not enough unless the car is moving....

curious, is your inlet/outlet on the same side of the radiator? mine is and i've always wondered if the couple inches that the fan doesn't cover along that side is alowing too hot of water to continue to circulate w/o cooling it at all unless the car is moving... seemed far fetched, but it's the only thing i've been able to think of that lets it get hot....

only issue i MIGHT have is that the actual temp might not be as bad as the orig guage says it is, i used a infared temp deally once and it seemed plenty cool all over the engine, but still unsure if the coolant temp is actually high or what... either way, i gave up, if it blows up from heat it's just a good excuse to make it faster

 

Not to mention the tricky water pump selections for Fords. Some are designed to run different directions than others. Do you know if you have the correct pump for your motor? if you do, did you change the belt routing in a way that might have reversed the direction the pump was designed to turn originally?

 

You've got to put a therrmostat or a flow restrictor in the system to keep the coolant in the radiator long enough to reject the heat otherwise it's overheat city.

 

I have a vaccuum advance distributor, not sure about it running cooler with the t-stat in because it was freezing cold in Colorado when we went to Vegas and didn't notice it untill Utah when it started vapor locking on me and the hoses were not both getting hot (we then pulled the t-stat in a gas station parking lot took a lighter to it and it never opened under direct flame).

Didn't even think of the engine flowing to much coolant, I guess I will try a t-stat and give her a try this weekend and see what she does

 

Sorry I posted up before all the other posts hit. Sheet metal is all there, the inner fender wells almost but right up against the radiator. My radiator now has the top outlet/inlet on the passangerside and the outlet/inlet at the bottom on the driverside.

Now for the water pump I am going to have to look at that because I modified my pully to make the alternator tighten the belt (I believe the p.s. pump did before I took it off). This might in fact be my problem (or at least it would make since that it would be)

picture of engine when I got it with the p.s. pump hooked to the water pump


picture of how I am running the engine now (minus the intake) with the alternator running the water pump I don't think the direction of the water pump is being changed

 

160 degree T-stat, aluminum radiator, new hoses, does the motor have a fan or just one on the radiator? I have a 72 351w and I can drive all day in 100 degree NC weather with no electric fan and it stays at 185 and maybe 205 at traffic lights.

 

is that a felpro gasket on the head? if it's backwards then the water passage is blocked. pretty common to put the passenger head gasket on backwards with felpros, it'll run about 20 degrees too hot.

 

march makes a pulley to line up the alt with the water pump and ditch that ps

 

are you talking actual head gaskets or where the intake meets the head? I might have to yank mine apart to see....

 

I wold say if its not your water pump, its your radiator.

I had the same problem with my 289 in my Galaxie, around the neighbourhood it was fine, as soon as i got the freeway the fucker heated up like crazy. I have a 6 blade flexifan now and i got the radiator recored, it was fucked. My radiator was flowing but not enough at the higher speeds.

Now im running at 180 - 190 all day long.

But if you got the wrong water pump in there you gots to check that first

 

I bought the engine already rebuilt and ready to go so I am not sure. I spaced out the waterpump pully to line up with the alt. thus loosing the p/s pump

 

If you had the heads off, HMH INC probably hit the problem on the head! Ford Windsor (221-351) head gaskets are particular toward direction, front should be marked and back will have two coolant passages behind the rear cylinder. They should not look the same when installed, one will look upside down. If a head gasket is installed backwards, the water flows from the pump into the block and right out the front of the head. The rear cylinders never see any coolant movement and run quite hot, usually warping at least the rear most cylinder.
The water pump looks correct as Ford never made a cast iron reverse rotation Windsor pump.

 

jmn444, actual head gaskets, the way that some gaskets are marked is deceptive, if you have a corner of gasket sticking out on the front driver's side, there should be one on the passenger's front too, if they are diagonal, chances are a passage is blocked, that's the cliff's notes version anyway

 

Buy Chevy haha sorry

 

thanks for the help

Is it worth recoring the radiator I have now or should I just step up into a aluminum radiator?

 

Don't bother recoring it, get a nice aluminum one now and spend money on other stuff next year, like gasoline.

 

any suggestions on brands?

 

I have had a Griffin that's lasted me 6 years now in a homemade core support on my 53 F100, what trans are you running?

 

I am running a C4 with a trans cooler on the frame rail

 

One like this??
http://store.summitracing.com/partd...908331+4294908282+4294924707+115&autoview=sku

 

right on, I've got an FMX , another 3 speed auto, and at about 70 - 75 mph I notice it run a little hotter

 

SBF shouldn't be overheating with a 3-row rad...

A few questions:

1 - Where is the vacuum line for your vacuum advance hooked up?
2 - Is your radiator downflow or crossflow?
3 - What is your timing set at?

I can typically set up SBF so they will hardly warm up. Two-row crossflow radiator, initial advance 10-12*, flat plate on waterpump impeller, 180* t-stat, proper shroud, & mech fan (clutch if able).

Is there any way to run a mechanical fan?? Electrics seem to be frought with compromises & never end up working as well as their potential...

If it's overheating all the time, odds are it's engine related vs radiator related, but that doesn't mean you couldn't be dealing with both issues.