Need help - 302 locked up after first startup

Ok, I'll try to keep this short. Professionally built 302 (I'd have taken this to the builder, but the shop has closed up), factory ford rotating ***embly (1987 5.0HO). Heads are 1970 castings that have had a significant amount of work done to. Builder relieved the factory pistons to clear larger valves (that's the shiny spots in the pics).

The motor was stored indoors, installed in the car with plugs/intake/valve covers, etc. all on it for about 4 years. I turned the motor by hand periodically while in storage. It was a fresh build using a low mileage short block (bearings and hardware replaced) and the reworked heads.

I started the motor for the first time, it fired, ran for about 30 seconds and stalled. Wouldn't turn back over, couldn't turn it by hand, so I pulled the plugs. 1-4 look fine, 5-8 are all smashed. I pull the heads, right side all looks ok, left side is full of what seem to be iron shavings and some plastic material. What is this and how did it get there? Any ideas on what this is and what I should do about it are appreciated. I have zero budget to fix this, I'm hoping I can salvage most of it. Thanks in advance.

 

Can you turn it over now that the heads are off?

 

Haven't tried yet. I want to clean all of the garbage out of the cylinders before I turn it...don't want to do any more damage than has already been done. I'm going to clean it up tonight and try.

 

ever see those shows about people who have stuff left in them after surgery? looks like something was in the intake or cylinders unbeknownst to you.

 

I doubt turning it by hand is going to do any damage that hasn't already been done.

All I can tell you for sure is that engine was NOT recently built. There is far too much carbon on the piston tops for something that sat untouched for four years.

Judging by the clean spot on each of those pistons, it looks like your engine guy did a quick flycutting and slapped it back together. I don't think the valves have been touching, but you could confirm that by letting us know if there were any bent pushrods. And it looks like there was some junk in those cylinders when you tried to get it running.

 

Roller rockers? Misadjusted? Heads milled to much on the damaged bank ? Or foreign deposits let for a surprise?

 

Well without seeing it in person it looks like someone left the clay on top of the pistons that they used to check piston to valve clearance. The #6 and #8 piston look like the top ring lands broke and the pieces of metal could be pieces of ring material. The engine would have turned over fine by hand but once fuel was introduced into a sealed combustion chamber it hydro-locks and causes all sorts of bad things. I would take it 100 % apart and check everything especially the cylinder walls, I bet they are cracked.

Sorry to see this happen but its not the first time I've seen it.

 

Na there would be bent valves in the heads.

 

No bent pushrods. Haven't dis***embled the heads yet to check valves, but I'll do that this weekend. Nothing obviously bent though.

How can you tell the ring lands are broken by that ****py phone pic? Any way to tell without a total teardown?

Thanks for the quick responses guys.

 

You can see on the bottom of the second and last piston chunks missing (or at least they look like it in the ****py pictures) Those areas are ring lands missing. Even if not I would pull it apart, there is not easy way to fix this other than to do it right.

Pour liquid into the runners of the heads, if the valves leak then they are bent but usually you will be able to see a bent valve.

 

Now you know why the shop has closed.

 

Gotcha, thanks Shizzel.

Yeah specialk, it's aggravating. It WAS a reputable shop too. I think he got into financial trouble and started cutting the wrong corners. My engine was one of the last he built, and from some other guys I've talked to it seems most of what left his shop in the few months before it closed was not right. It was one of those deals where everything seemed fine, then one day the doors were locked and that was it. I know some of the guys that worked for him and some of his vendors and he skipped out without paying anyone, rent hadn't been paid in months, the whole nine. When the landlord changed the locks that was it.

 

added a pic above to help

 

Thanks Shizzel. I think those are actually pieces of clay (or whatever the plastic like garbage in there is). I need to clean it all up, give it a closer look, and take some clearer pics.

Thanks again guys, I really appreciate the help.

 

well if it turns out to be shot..you can sell it like all the other used engine guys..."ran when pulled"...lol

J/K

Dam..what a mess

 

It is my guess that something was in the manifold - under the carb when you fired it. Is the dust plastic ? Are the pieces plastic?. I noticed rust on the exhaust valves.
Get a shopvac out and clean it up then try to hand roll it through. If it will roll through the fill the cylinders with light weight oil and see if it seeps down.
Then go from there.

 

Wouldn't both sides be screwed up if something was in the manifold and got ****ed down? The other side looks fine. Strange, eh?

 

Wanna buy a small block? Just kiddin'...I got the Catholic guilt.

 

Yeah..im the same way..

just messin'

keep pluggin you'll find out whats up with it

 

It almost looks like there was something laying in the cyls. The heads are foul on the bottom and there is a ton of junk on the bottom of the cyl walls. Are you sure it wasn't full of mud dobbers or some mice got into the motor? Those damn things can get in through spark plug holes, the intake and the exhaust valves.
Not a week ago I had a mess of dobbers in my garage. They came out of the exhaust bolt holes on a couple sets of ram horns that were in a shed. They have been in my garage for the entire winter and just decided to pop out. I also found small acorns in the exhaust ports and intake of the 352 in my galaxie on teardown.

 

I am sure of nothing at the moment! Could be. I have seen mice in the shop before, and mud dobbers in the yard. Most of whatever is it, is ferrous though.

 

Got out to the garage for a few hours tonight. The motor does turn over easily by hand. Looks much better now that I cleaned most of the **** out of the cylinders too! I also dis***embled the head. Some junk in it, it'll need to be cleaned out, but no bent valves and the guides look good. Maybe I'll get lucky.

A few of the valves did get scuffed on the outer face though, think that will cause any issues? The seats look fine. Thanks.

 

Hey Octane,

know you won't want to hear this: pull the motor out, completely dis***emble it.

It looks like the pistons were flycut for valve clearance without cleaning. Any shop that would pull pistons, cut 'em for valve clearance, and re-install 'em is capable of any kind of mechanical transgression.

Looking at this mess, I wouldn't have the slightest faith in anything like critical fastener torque values, ring gaps, bearing clearances, journal finish, or a hundred other little things that could ruin a day.

Looking at what you have there, I wouldn't bet on there being nothing else wrong. Not even if you gave me odds.

Sorry to be a pessimist, but, I've seen some real hinky ****...

-Bill

 

Oh, and to answer your question: yes, I'd pull the valves springs, cover the face of the valve and seat with a sharpie pen, and spin 'em.

The pattern will show you if you have a valve that's taken hurt (and also a number of other things).

Better to find it now.

-Bill

 

Thanks Bill...you're right, better safe than sorry. aaarghh.

 

Hindsight is 20-20, but I have to think the way that shop closed up and all I would have popped heads before I started it, maybe taken main and rod bearings off to inspect too. Hopefully you get lucky and didn't hurt anything too bad -

 

i have to agree its a pain to pull it out and pull it down but checking it out now could save you from needing a tow and a new engine in the near future

 

Now I cant wait to hear more of the story.

 

Any updates??
Did you find out what was in the cylinders???

 

I dont know if I can help but send me a PM of the shop and what town it was in (unless you want to just post it) I sell to a bunch of engine builders. If it was someone we sold to I might be able to contact him.