Need help on Cadillac engines. Weren't all Cadillac engines basically the same from about 1949 to 1960 or so except for CI's. Won't the distributor/magnito from any of these years switch from one to another. Or was there several completely different engines during these years? I would appreciate any help any of you Caddy dudes can give me. Thanks. Beep
Yep, same basic engine from '49-62. I don't have a positive answer for you, but this will bump you to the top in hopes that someone with more knowledge can help you. If not, you might go to www.cadillaclasalleclub.org and ask on their tech forum. Marko.
Okay, this comes up every once in a while, usually because the info gets buried pretty quickly (and somebody didn't search hard enough). There's alot of info to be known with these mills, and Marcus posted what has become the definitive thread on this subject. So, because I'm too lazy to type it all out in my own words, I'm gonna repost here and now what Marcus posted in January 2004, that way more people will be able to see it....there's a wealth of knowledge here.... From Marcus...or as he is now known, CadillacinMarcus..... I realize I posted this a few weeks back,but thought for tech week I would post again... I know alot you know this info already,but I have received a few emails about Caddys and thought I would write a post on what I know and remember about Cads regarding what interchanges through the years and different engines.I'm by no means an expert,I built mine in 96-98 and did as much homework as possible during that time,I was virtually clueless.I wish I knew alot of this info myself before I started into it.I learned alot from guys like Squeak Bell and other ex-racers who swore by the old Cads. So here I go... First year was 1949 the CID was 331 OHV V8, also the same year the Olds 303 came out.From 1949-1962 this design engine was used (49-55 331CID) (56-58 365CID) (59-62 390CID)All Intake Manifolds,Camshafts,Water Pumps(diff outlet locations vary through the years),Valve Covers,Heads,Valley Covers will fit on all models(Studebaker rocker arms will fit also)(valley covers will fit up til 1967)(6x2 intakes will fit until 67).The first 1949 models had valve covers like the Olds and are pretty rare now.1949-51 had some real small exh ports and small valves,all 331's didn't breathe too well.Also compression was low on these like 7.5:1 and only had a two bbl carb until 52. 6 volt until 53.1949-1954 Cads were offered in manual also,and can be identified by the partial bellhousing cast like a Flathead Ford/Merc.They used the same ******s from 37-54 including La Salle,Olds,Buick..they all will bolt up the tailshafts are different etc.Oldsmobile shared the same set up until 1956.The 331's could be bored out alot up to a 1/4" but 1/8" or 3/16" is more practical.Basically a 390 is a bored out 331 and 390's can't be bored out that far.All Cads use non-adjustable rockers which limits you on any type of performance cam,adj rockers are a must in a performance motor and still can be had,just let me know(stock valve covers will not clear,either shim them up or use Edelbrock or Hildebrandt covers,Moons and Offys wont clear as well).All Cads 1949-1958 use a partial flow oil filtration system,the 1959 390 were the first to go full flow something to consider when choosing a Cad to build.Distributors are the same 1949-1954.All in all the 390 is the best for performance choice of them all, they look the same as the early models and will give you the cubes and compression tons of torque and horsepower! Cadillac cool stuff.. Valve Covers-Early Factory Cadillac have the cursive script and were used I believe until 1955.Edelbrock and Hildebrandts are what you need for performance and clearance.Offy,Moon and Cal Custom made them alsffy and Moon are still available new.Finned valley covers are available from Dennis O'Brien of O'Brien Truckers. Distributors-Everyone made them but are really hard to find now Du Coil,Grant,Spaulding,Rotofaze are the **** but good luck getting parts.Mallory Magspark was a great unit and the parts are still being made ie points,cap and rotor!Also Mallory will build you a new custom unit as will Vertex or Joe Hunt. Pistons-I know Jahns and JE will build you pistons of any bore and compression,Jahns will only do cast though,but for the later mill ie 390's, stockers from TRW,Egge etc will work fine and give you 10.25:1, more since you will surface the heads. Cams-Back in the 50's and 60's Isky made some cool rollers,and I believe there is someone making them again.My cam grinder wouldnt tell me who though! Cads dont like much more than .475" lift and 280 adv dur remember adj rockers will be a must at this lift.Can use Chevy lifters but need to have pushrods made,also can be done for like $8.00 a rod.The aftermarket Cad lifters are junk and made overseas. Heads- 59-62 390 headsare the best and will bolt onto the earlier models no problem.Must use the rocker shafts from the 390.so make your mind up first about using adj rockers before you order them because the 331's are different than the 390's.as well as headers at this point eraly cads are small and rectangle the 390's are large and sq.the 390 can be fitted with Chevy 2.02 or 1.94 intake valves and 1.60 exh.to balance the flow properly leave the stock exh valves in the center two,because they are siamesed and share one large port. Intakes-Cadillac made a cast iron 2x4 used 55-57 models as well as a 3x2 set up used on the 58-60.the 3x2 works ok but none of them really give you the performance you can get from a good aftermarket unit.The intake that flowed the best was the Weiand model 2x4's in the 60's that featured the large AFB carb pads the earlier versions were made for the WCFB small base and didnt flow worth a ****.The first aftermarket intakes were made by Detroit Racing, they featured a dual intake that really worked well as did Edmunds and Eddie Meyers,Offy, later a 2x4 was made this is more for a 331.3x2 intakes by Edelbrock or Weiand are the ****,sorry Offy! 3x2's seem to work well on Cads also. 4x2's Horne made the first they later became Cragar, pretty cool set up, but Edelbrock shook things up with a staggered design that delivered! 6x2's by Weiand and Edelbrock again rule especially the Dragstar by Weiand and the Edelbrock CA-6 they are high rise look *****in,thats for all out balls to the walls throttle,one purpose only Fuel and more fuel.The Offy is ok but they are low rise only,Cragar made a cool low rise to.The 6x2 will fit the 63-67 390/429's as well, the deck width on these engines are narrower just cut the 5/8" fuel hose to fit and voila! 2x4's by Weiand in the 60's were the absolute best all round intake,Nicson,Detroit Racing and Maybe Edmunds made a 2x4 as well. Blower intakes were made by Cragar I dont know if the rest made one or not,alot were just fabbed up.. Fuel inj by Mr Algon and Mr Hilborn were made good luck on that search. Well thats all I got to say about that(Forrest Gump reference!)... Hope this helped some
Here's the link to the original thread too.... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8282&highlight=cadillac Good luck.
If I,m not mistaken, 49 to 55. are the shorter shafts and the 56 to 62 (365 to 390) are the longer shaft Distributors. Few of the custom Magnetos I believe are machined to fit 49 through 62. But most stock distributors and Magnetos are not interchangeable. I'll dig up some pics of the different model Distributors used through the years. This is pretty much the last speed part I need for my engine, and has been the hardest to find.
Just got a Vertex mag for my 390 last year right from Vertex....didn't have to do **** to it except drop it in and set it....all Vertex needed from me was a gear off of a stock dizzy and about $700....Talk to Ted at Vertex...he'll hook you up fer sure...
I had read the original thread but this renewal is very timely for me as I've located what is thought to be a 59-62 390 Caddy engine. It's missing the starter and it is said to turn over "stiffly", whatever that means. I spoke with a person in Ohio that rebuilds Caddy engines and he didn't speak very favorably about the old engines. But he had a re-conditioned 429 to sell for $2,000. He told me a good complete rebuild kit with forged pistons would cost $1,700 and Kanter priced their kit for $1,240. I have access to a 425 Caddy with a 400 trans for $300, but I sure like the looks of the older engine for the 51 Mercury just obtained. What is the width from exhaust to exhaust of the 390? Will the 390 bolt up to the 400 trans without adapters? Any experience/advice on what is involved in installing the Caddy in a 51 Merc? Either the 390 or the 425? Thanks Ol Blue
I think your Caddy guy in Ohio is on crack...nothin wrong at all with those 390 cadillacs...I've been beatin on the rebuilt stocker in my '59 coupe deville for about 10 years now, and now I'm beatin on the full race 390 in my Model A coupe...they're torquey old *******s, and they generate a big WOW factor, cuz nobody ever runs one, cuz everybody's boring! As for bolting up to a Turbo 400, you do need an adapter...check wilcap or bendtsen's, they've got 'em...I'm actually trying to put one in a '50 Merc, and I'm still weighing my options, but i'll let you know what I find out as far as engine mount adapters and the like....
Cadillac Kid and Old Beeet Thanks for the responses, I'll check with Feder on the 425 fit. I would much rather to put the old style engine in, but there is so much else to do with the Merc. with funds available. Cadillac Kid, I've spoken to Bill Belmont at Belmont's Rod and Custom and he tells me that he has the blueprints from Hurst on engine mounts. As near as I can remember it is $135 for mounts, $50 for brackets and $25 for biscuits. There is an article in the Dec. 1959 Hot Rod about Hurst mounts and some pictures there, but not real good ones to see how they were made. I also have a 1961 catalog that lists motor mounts for engine swaps but pictures aren't very detailed. I need a p***enger door if anyone can help. Thanks Ol Blue
Biggest pains with 365/390 Cadillacs are the water pumps and cracked heads. A couple years ago I rebuilt a 365 with 390 heads. Below were my problems. The water pumps cost a ton ($125+) to get rebuilt and the cores alone can top $200 (when exchanging). I went through 3 water pumps to get a good one from a large Cadillac parts supplier. As everything on the front of the engine bolts to the pump it's like an all day job to change one. The heads are unique side to side. I went through 5 chracked heads before finding a good one. My 365 is in a mostly stock 57 Coupe DeVille. If I had it all to do over again I would use a 425/472/500 and keep the hood closed Craig Iowa
Yeah, I know that the heads can be a problem like that...that's why I keep extra ones on hand....About the water pumps, go through Arthur Gould to get them rebuilt...he does 'em for like $135.00 but they get rebuilt with neopren internals instead of rubber....it holds up alot better...He was the only one who would touch my water pump for my 390....after I chromed it...
Cadillac Kid, Thanks for the tip on Arthur Gould. Do you have any contact info? I have a core I would like to rebulid and carry with me. I too am putting together a stash of spare heads (and everything else). Carmak Iowa PS I do like the chromed water pump!
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