Need practical car advice - MOPAR-related

I've been looking for an old car (mostly early 60s) to use as a daily. I found a cool 62 Chrysler 300 2 door hardtop with a 413 and auto ****** that's in my price range. The guy is desperate to get rid of it, so I may be able to get it for cheap. The body is straight and solid, but the floors need to be replaced and some body panels need some patches. the rust in the floors extends to the rockers, but the rockers seem solid and there is no sagging (the doors still close with a thunk). The leaf springs need to be replaced and it needs some rewiring. Here's the problem. The guy SAYS that he never drove the car except for in and out of the garage in the 4 years he's owned it, but it hasn't run in over a year. He turned the motor over for me, but said that the battery didn't have enough juice to start it (I'm skeptical). So, I haven't heard it run, and I have to take his word that it runs, drives and stops. I didn't see any important leaks under the car.

What would you offer for it? Would you run away? I'll need to do the work on the street in Chicago. I have a very limited budget and would like to have it driveable by the end of March.

 

Is it a 300 or a 300H? If it's not a letter car...maybe 2000?

 

it's a non-letter 300 "sport".

 

Hey Joe

My man, I don't like to tell anybody what to do, But based on my own experiences buying older cars, especially ones that have sat awhile, I would think really hard on it.

Once ya get it moving on it's own power, that's when leaks will pop up. Dried out seals may start to leak all over.

The problem of having to rewire anything is a mucho turn off for me. Bad or butchered wiring is not good.

Condensation from sitting so long will manifest itself into all sorts of problems. Bad water pumps, bad U-joints, things breaking on account of oxidation.

It does look cool and may make a neat project car for someone else, not a daily driver. You may spend more money to get it Kenndy Expressway worthy and all total be able to buy a better car.

Just looking out for my Czar buddy,

Joel

 

Hey Joe, even though i REALLY want it (but i dont have enough dough) i would suggest checking the cl***ifieds for the 59 Windsor in Minnesota. It is totally awesome, a driver, and a good deal. If my parents would let me i would sell the caprice and get that as my daily. Just my thoughts. Hopefully see ya tonight.
Lil Joe

 

here's yorgatron rule #1: never buy a non-running car for more than you can part it out.EVER!!! what i would do is show up with a fresh battery and a 5 gal. can of gas,a spark plug wrench,compression gauge,points file,and some jumper wires with alligator clips.if the guy won't let you test the compression and/or hotwire it to hear the engine run WALK AWAY FROM IT!!!

 

Depends on whether you want a hardtop...or a 4-door Windsor...

Yeah, the old girl will need some work...bu thten for the kind of money you're going to offer...you ain't going to find a low miles '60's car that doesn't need work in Chicago anywhere! And that's a good looking car...

True, once it starts and runs...you mite find a few problems...bu there ain't no way of knowing this until you do...tell him you want to hear it run before you make an offer...let him juice up the battery and buy the gas...watch the tailpipe for excessive smoke, shift the gears, see if the ****** works...but it may not take as much work as you think.

Start low, but don't insult the man...I'd think (around Denver anyway, that car would be offered for $1000.00 and up)...offer him $1000.00 and see where it goes.
R-

 

Proceed very carefully. I am not sure what brakes are going to set you back but I have a feeling a full set all the way around may be more than planned. It is a cool car but you need to get it running. If he says it runs than you should take it for a spin. Bring a battery and maybe a shot of gas with you and get the thing going. Take it for a shake down cruise this way you have an idea what you are going to need to drop for repairs. This will also help when you strike up a deal with him.

"Well it needs new brakes I will offer you $**X."

If this thing runs and drives, than that is what you need to purchase. Especially when you are going to have to rely on this car on a daily basis. Daily basis is a big amount of responsiblity to put on an old car especially one that has had some time to sit.

Don't let the fact that this guy is "desparate to get rid of it" make this the deal of the century type car, and don't let it pressure you into buying it. Especially if it has sat for a period of time. Judging from the conditions that this thing is stored in it doesn't look dry. Condensation raises hell on everything!

Good luck Joe. Hopefully you win.

Justin

 

the problem is that the car is 5 hours away. He led me to believe it was running on the phone, but wasn't really when I got there. I happened to be in the area, so I stopped in to check it out. I wasn't prepared to do a full evaluation like that. The under dash wires are green at the contacts, but otherwise look good. They may need to be cleaned or replaced. I'm not sure. The power steering pump was new and the hard brake lines looked new. The ignition switch was bad, so he had something rigged up in its place. the engine turned, but didn't fire. Personally I don't think he let it crank long enough, which made me wonder why not.

 

This is what I do when I look at any thing used.

Rule #1 it needs to be rebuilt. If not then I'm plesently surprised.

Rule #2 is it what I want to fool with, and am I willing to fight it everyday to drive it (go back to rule #1).

Rule #3 if its anybody but a HAMBer they probably haven't told me everything about it (go back to rule #1).

Rule #4 if I have any doubts whatsoever I walk away. Sure I have probably missed a good deal or two over the years but I know I've missed at least as many lemons.

on the other hand I bought the Galaxie for about a grand. I depended on rule # 1. I turned it over with a wrench to make sure it was free and was plesently suprised when I didn't have to do a complete rebuild to drive it.

On to your specific car. MOPAR parts are high. I like 'em but the pieces either cost too much or are hard to find or both.

413 Sport 2 dr hrdtp. Hmmmm.

 

Three things about pre-'65 Mopars :

1: Unibody

2: Tapered rear axles that take a special puller to get to the brakes.

3: Ball and Trunion on the Torqueflites. (Plus Cable shifters)

They aren't cheap to work on, and the 413 doesn't have a lot of choices for overbore pistons unless you go to custom made - I found one manufacturer for cast pistons -TRW. Replacement parts for the ball and trunion are mostly non-existant, and I had to use a rack and pinion bellows to replace mine when it disintegrated (Covers the ball and trunion).

http://www.autohobbydigest.com/axlepul.html

Dan

 

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3: Ball and Trunion on the Torqueflites. (Plus Cable shifters)


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what does that mean?

 

It doesn't have a universal joint on the transmission - it has a sliding set of balls like a slip joint inside a housing. I'll take a picture of an extra one that I have in a little while and post it.
Also, check the cables if it's push ****on on the dash. No one makes replacements for them, but they do have replacements for floor shifts.

Dan

 

Hellfish - this is a '62 Chrysler driveshaft with a ball and trunion. The ball contains needle bearings and fit over the cross bars inside the housing. You then pack it with grease and a plate covers the end. The bellows allows it to move forward and back while containing the grease.

 

This is a '62 Chrysler transmission. The parking brake is the round drum on the rear of it, and the driveshaft bolts to it with four bolts. [image]http://[/image]

My guess is that if he's in a hurry to get rid of it he's discovered the cost of fixing it. If the motor is good, and the chrome is good I might give $1000.00 to part it out. The rusty floors to the rockers scares me.

 

[ QUOTE ]
Three things about pre-'65 Mopars :

1: Unibody

2: Tapered rear axles that take a special puller to get to the brakes.

3: Ball and Trunion on the Torqueflites. (Plus Cable shifters)

They aren't cheap to work on, and the 413 doesn't have a lot of choices for overbore pistons unless you go to custom made - I found one manufacturer for cast pistons -TRW. Replacement parts for the ball and trunion are mostly non-existant, and I had to use a rack and pinion bellows to replace mine when it disintegrated (Covers the ball and trunion).

[/ QUOTE ]

What he said.......and you have to remember,I LOVE my MOPARS.

 

SKR8PN - I love the motors and power, but learned a whole bunch while doing my '64. Quirky cars pre-64, and a lot of changes that I didn't understand why they did them - especially the transmissions.

Dan

 

A friend of mine had some floor problems in his 61 Chrylser newport. When he took the carpet up all the pans were gone, some of the driveshaft hump, and portions under the back seat. Needless to say it was not what he was expecting. When he finished replacing the floor the ****** blew up. A rebuild kit is like 400 bux. That all said it is one of the coolest cars out there it has a really neat dashboard and push****on automatics are cool when the work.

 

your buddy got ripped off on a $400 rebuild kit. they are the same as the later ones, just a few different seals.

tapered axles: spend $50 on the damn puller
ball and trunion: if this scares you, buy a chevy. they are bulletproof, napa sells a rebuild kit for em, and i've run mine in my '62 for years with no trouble
cable shift: imperial services makes replacements, they are about $100
unibody: you said this car is rusty. if it's just the floor, it will be ok, if the rockers are bad, the car isn't worth fixing.
wiring: way easy to fix, call me if you need any help, i've got the whole schematic memorized for mopars.

this car is going to be a gas hog, and the power steering will leak.

oh, yeah, and those 413s are junk, toss that the trash, and put in a small chevy. four-thirteen

 

If you can't hear the car run and see it move and stop under it's own power, you have to tailor your offer to reflect that you view it as a project vehicle...not a driver.

Also, rusty floors on unibody cars are real bad news...especially on Mopars which use torsion bar suspensions. The sockets can and will rip free from rusted mounts leaving you with an instant low-rider! (I know this from experience!). This should also be a consideration when considering what to offer.

At this point, you have a rusty car with a big block Mopar that may or may not run...the trans may or may not be good (likely NOT on an old Tourqueflite that's been parked for years), and it may or may not have adequate brakes and safe steering components.

Not to knock the car or offend anyone, but if it were me, I wouldn't be willing to part with more than $200-$400 for such an animal. The motor may be worth a little more than that, but if you have to transport and store a rusted hulk and then yank the motor out...it affects it's value.

Now...in PARTS, the car (like almost ANY vehicle) is worth considerably MORE...but as a whole, it's not sounding like a great catch to me?

If the guy has to off it as a complete car, then you're at the advantage. It won't be worth as much as it would if you could at least test drive it. If he has time to part it out...then he can make a good deal of money off of it...but not from someone interested in the whole thing as a possible project vehicle.

 

Four-Thirteen: Can you give me a source for the puller? I tried to find one to no avail.
When I did my car the push****on cables weren't available, but I see they are now from Imperial - for $150 for the shift cable and $130 for the parking cable.
My NAPA store said ball and trunion parts weren't available, but I'm in a small Florida town where they say that about everything. I have no doubts about the strength since they were used on the super stockers, but it's a hell of a lot easier to find universal joints when you need one.
The 413 is a super motor, but it seems like piston manufacturers concentrated on the 426 and 440. The machine shop called all of his suppliers and found TRW - no others.
And if you have a source for the boot on the driveshaft, I'd like to get the proper one.
Thanks

Dan

 

ugly egay drum puller they are on ebay all the time. or you can get creative and make one with a huge bolt and use the 5 lugs to pull it on.

i bought a rebuild kit for the ball and trunion maybe 5 or 6 years ago at napa. i just figured they still carried it. i'd try a different store.

you are right, good pistons are not available for 413s. you can bore them .060" over, and use a stock bore 426 slugs. or just have some custom made, expensive, but what are you going to do...


the rubber boots tear off the driveshaft at around 120mph, i hoseclamped an old leather glove over it, it holds the grease in just fine. four-thirteen

 

Mutt, give Dan Dvorak in Waldo, Fl a call about the ball and trunion rebuild kits. He's got a **** load of stuff up there. Luckily my old '64 was a stick but he helped me with parts many times. Just where is Murdock anyway?

 

Thanks voodoo. Murdock is halfway between Sarasota and Ft. Myers, just north of Port Charlotte. Actually just a sign on 41, not a town.

My brother pulled his '65 318, and I'll use the tailshaft to convert to universal joint if I keep the car.

Appreciate the source.

Dan

 

Crud. This is sounding less and less like a good deal. It's too bad since the car is really nice. I did some checking on NAPA online and couldn't find any brake parts for the car. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. The lack of parts availability scares me, especially since I want this as a "daily" driver. BTW, the guy said he needs to sell it because he has to move, but can't move until he sells the car. He's asking $3000 obo and told me repeatedly that I should just make him an offer.

 

Since I know absolutely nothing about Mopars...and just learned a ****load reading all this...I'd print this thread out, take it to himso he can see you've done your homework and offer $500.00...seems to me like "can't move until he gets rid of it" is just another excuse...otherwise, let some other ****er hual it outta there and rebuild it...sounds like a daily driver it won't be. Go look for something else...like a good Chevy that's simple, has tons of parts avaiable and gets decent gas mileage!
R-

 

Personally, I can't ever find what I need on NAPA online. Call them up and ask them... you might get better results.

As far as break parts, I know NAPA or Bumper to Bumper will have rebuild kits for them and shoes so I wouldn't be too concerned. The major issue is that 413... big block parts don't come cheap, and it really will depend on what needs replacing once you get in there. But the motor turns over, right? I would be more concerned if it didn't.

I wouldn't pay more than $1000 for that car personally. If he can't show you it runs and what with the floor being bad and all, it's not worth much more than that.

But it sounds like he really wants this car to move. If you really want it, but he won't take your offer, I'd check back after a week... I bet he'll change his tune.

Just my $.02

~Melissa

 

[ QUOTE ]
Crud. This is sounding less and less like a good deal. It's too bad since the car is really nice. I did some checking on NAPA online and couldn't find any brake parts for the car. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. The lack of parts availability scares me, especially since I want this as a "daily" driver. BTW, the guy said he needs to sell it because he has to move, but can't move until he sells the car. He's asking $3000 obo and told me repeatedly that I should just make him an offer.

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NAPA on-line will be the same as the store computer. On the older stuff they have to go to the books. The brake parts are available, just not cheap. AS are most everything else for the car.

If he repetedly said make me an offer and you want the car make him an offer. Hell he's 5 hrs away, so make him an unreasonable offer. He won't drive that far to smak ya.
Sounds to me like ya got him over a barrel.

 

I want to just say thanks to Mutt & 413 and everybody,

I have got a lust for 59 Saratoga's and old Chryslers and now i know what to look for.

Thanks DDog