Need schoolin' 53 Merc Flatty V8

I have a line on a 53 Merc Flatty..
says its the 110HP version..?
what can you tell me about these engines?
what to look for when i go to see it..
what is the going $ for one that is rotating free, and should run with a little TLC?

any pictures?

 

Check the water pumps and make sure they both spin fine and there isn't a ton of slop in them. Water pump failure was fairly common. I haven't seen many merc flatheads for sale but in minnesota I see stock running ford 8bas go for betwen 500-800 depending on how nice on craigslist. Unstuck motors that are complete and could run with a little tlc I see for anywhere from a couple hundred to 500. Hope that is a little helpful...

 

engine it is set up to use in older fords 1932 to 1948 it has a 11 in ch clutch, truck water pumps, truck exhaust manifolds, bellhousing for older fords

are they a ***** to get parts for?
and ,how about hop up parts, like multi carb intakes, heads, the show and go stuff

 

A '53 Merc came with a 125 hp 255 engine, the 110 horse was a Ford 239. Lots can happen in half a century, though.
I'd want to pull the heads before dropping much cash on the guy. They are bad for cracking. Some don't matter, but any cracks in the cylinder/valve seat area and she's a leverite....Leave 'er right there!
The '53 was about the crowning glory of the Flathead line. Ford just got them working good, and he s****ped them! Haha.
Can't tell you what it's worth outside Canada, they are much more common up here since Mercury made trucks up here and they all have 255's in them, I have several. Most Ford of Canada rebuilds are 255's.

 

thanks R Pope..
most cracks between the valves and piston bore? or piston bore to water jacket?

any tools i should bring with me?

 

They have a tendency to crack through the water jacket between the center exhaust ports and the exhaust valve seats. Some can be fixed by drilling and pinning and adding new valve seats if the ends of the cracks can be reached.

 

Thanks Mike
any big deal on getting the heads off?
seller should expect this right?

 

You really have to pull the heads to verify the 4" stroke (they ALL are Mercurys!) , and inspect for obvious cracks or damage. Another critical area to check for freeze cracks is the oil pan rail. I wouldn't give more than $100-$150 for a complete but "sealed" engine. Verifying a Merc crank, and finding no obvious cracks or damage would bring the value up around $500. This doesn't guarantee a good block or crank, (only a through cleaning and further inspection will do that), but the chances are good you have one. If all the accessories are in good shape (oil pan, bell, pumps, carb etc) you can cut your losses by their sale, if necessary. I would even pull the heads off a good running engine before I paid good money, 'cause they can also have serious cracks. IMO

 

thanks Bob

 

If you can pull the pan off, take a look at the crank. If it's a 4" crank it'll have the large clean out holes in it. They should measure right at 1/2" The Ford crank clean out holes were about 3'8". Hope that helps

 

Nowadays after decades of work and rebuilt exchanges it is unusual for a flathead to be the same heap of parts it was in '53! Yes, severely downgrade value if you can't measure stroke (maybe 2-3 hundred there!) and do a visual check for cracks. P***enger engines by '53 mostly had no hard seats, so real '52-3 blocks ar slightly inferior there...but who knows what it really is til you look.
If buyer is reasonable, lay those card on table and set price with and without Merc crank verification, another plus/minus based on visible cracks.
Who knows what seller expects, but a flathead without at least visual verification with heads off is simply not worth much.

 

What are clean out holes?

 

Thanks guys good useful info.
whats the dime to have one rebuilt? ball park?$$

as long as the block is useful

 

Man is this the truth. Someone put Ford pistons in my 53 Merc. The tops of the pistons were ground off for clearance. Needless to say, one ended up with a hole in it. How's that for inginuity.

 

gospel coming from you..
thank you for the education on how to work this deal and not get hosed,
I would hope the seller would understand if one is to put down money on a possibility, the buyer better limit those "bad possibilities" or at least try to work in that direction..

or..all that engine sitting in the corner, could just be a nice looking boat anchor.
and i dont need that

Thanks BL

 

Think block and crank when evaluating. A block that at least looks good and a Merc crank are both big pieces of building an affordable rod. Rebuild cost...can be anything.
From description, engine MIGHT turn out to be near usable as is, needing little more than gaskets and valve touch-up after you inspect, or it could need serious rebuild starting with boring and buying new everything. What do you want, what can you afford, what do you actually have once engine is laid out for inspection?

 

At this point the owner says.." ran when took out".like 12 years ago!.and i know this is optimistic to say it could be a regasket and run type deal, but for how long until problems show up? unknown.
I also dont know how it was stored all those 12 or more years..

i hope to be able to see and inspect it soon, unless i get beat to the punch and it sells before i get to it.

I really should have my focus on my A build right now, but good v8 flattys dont fall out of the sky here in S.E. Michigan (bummer)

I am wanting to score this, for a future project, so i can go slow with it..
inspect it, if its good, buy it, and moth ball it until the time comes...
and wait for that Coupe to fall into my hands that needs a Merc flatty

 

The first Mercury flathead that I got had a cracked block down near the pan rails where the pan bolts on. If it sat out side with no anti freeze in it, the water left down low can freeze and crack the pan rail. Mine went from bolt hole to bolt hole and then up the side inside. You can't see it with the pan in place. Fortunately the blocks are the same for the Ford and the Merc. This was the second flathead that I have seen cracked down there. We just got another block.

If he is not willing to guarantee that the block is crack free then I'd offer a lot less for it. Some of the cracks in the combustion chamber can be repaired for a price. My cracks were fatal. A different block might be cheaper.

 

I bought a 41 Ford that "Ran last in '73", odometer read 89,000.

The engine was well sealed meaning that the carb and especially air cleaner were on and the plugs were in all the holes.

If the engine is open via carb or plug holes be cautious.

My "ran in '73" find did indeed run and I drove it for almost 10 years without a hitch and with the usual low oil pressure of an early well used Flathead (5 lbs warm is the norm on a older Flathead).
I had no overheating, no excess noise, no EXCESS oil burning.
Just a fun car with the odd puff of blue but in reality that is expected for a 60 or 70 year old original running Flathead.


Total cost to get it running was about $135 which included $60 for a new battery, $10 for starter rebuild parts, $7 to refurb the generator, $40 for carb rebuild stuff/kit and $20 for fuel pump rebuild kit.

All parts for a Flathead are easily found, most are still produced and the price for parts varies depending on whether it is a licensed Ford product or not.

Flathead speed equipment is widely available but can be spendy.


All in all, the 32-53 Flathead may have lost some of it's charm (from when they were the REAL hotrod engine of choice) but they still remain popular today.

Flatheads are reliable and easy to work on but can be spendy to rebuild from the block up.

You can do yourself a huge favor by finding one that does actually run (under $1000) instead of buying an unknown quan***y and finding out it has problems that will cost $3000 to fix (rebuild it).

Look for the last incarnation of the Flathead (49 -53) as it is the most desirable. The later fatheads are the ones that are cast without the bell housing. The give away as to age is in the distributor. If it's upright like todays distributors then it is the desirable 49-53 block. All blocks 1948 and earlier are cast with a bell housing as part of the block.

Go over to http://www.macsautoparts.com/ and download or request a free (paper) catalog for the year of car that your Flathead is.

Macs has a great catalog that shows illustrations of pretty well every part that you have or that you need. It also lists part numbers so if you have a Ford part number and need to figure out what years it works with you can use the catalog to help id it.

Also, your best buddy is the Flathead forums techno site.
http://www.flatheadv8.org/phpBB/

There is more gold there than in any other spot on the www.

Also, Flatheads are a joy to behold at the cruise in and they have a nice exhaust sound.
Opening your hood at any gathering will attract a crowd. I can't say that about the sbc as most Ford cars at the show with sbc keep their hoods closed. (for what ever reason)
A Flathead is a great toy but just don't expect to build or rebuild one for the cheap like a sbc or sbf.
When you step into the world of Flatheads you will need to understand that these are first, great engines (a testament to the fact that many still run today) but can be expensive if/when you buy an unknown engine.
As stated earlier, I would Really Avoid any engine that has been exposed to the elements via open carb and spark plugs. A weather tight block is the only way to go imho and it is even better if you can verify that it runs (without Excessive smoke). -Older, worn engines will smoke a little and that's just the way it is.

Good luck in your endeavors and I hope to be hearing all about how you spent an extra few $$ to save yourself many $$$$ by finding a decent/real runner. (jmho, A vintage engine is not something to be scrimped on in the short term)

I Would also love to hear about the project that you'll be putting it in. .

.

 

thanks Moefuzz..I hope to get back in contact with the 'ol farmer to come out and take a look see..if it turns out good i will bring it back up, if its a pile, I'll tell that too.

the possible project would be something like a 30-31 "left alone" coupe, jerk the banger and throw in the 8, and just have fun with out making her pretty on purpose, at first, and as time goes by maybe dress her up..all depends on the patena of the A

 

VFG, squeezing the late model Flathead in a model A presents it's own challenges (unless you recess the firewall).

They are a natural fit for 32 and up and are pretty tight in a 31.


There should be lots of info on the hamb regarding shoehorning a late Flathead in an early (28 - 31) body.

.

 

Even if engine is perfect, its intended use likely calls for a hot cam, so just go to a 21A pattern for the new one. Potentially chops several inches off of length with right choice of front hardware and gives you a good and cheap distributor. And looks like it belongs in an early rod.

 

well i had a good talk with the guy on the phone.
he said .."if you are interested and we make a deal, we will both open her up and have a look, if it has no problems or cracks, the deal is good. if there are problems, i have the option of no deal"
sounds like the kinda people i like to deal with.
going to try and make it out to him tomorrow

he also said the reason he took it out of the vehicle he had it in, was because it got "terrible gas mileage"

im not worried..everything i own gets terrible gas mileage...everything!

 

yeah, i'd be doing that for sure..had to do it on my A for the 3 x2 rochesters and distributor, of the SBC in my 28 tudor.

or i really like a 34...so it might sit and wait for one to show up

 

Ha! I just bought a late flathead last week for the '34 5- window I hope to someday have. We are nothing without our dreams!

 

True words..keep me posted, especially if you find 2

always loved the 34's maybe its wierd to put the horse before the buggy kinda thing, but you gotta get when the gettins good

or is that ..strike when the irons hot?

Dream is just another word for,,nothin left to lose

 

I didn't see that anyone answered this question for you. The cranks were machined through the center of the journals with clean outs that are plugged. I have even seen them referred to as sludge traps.

The size of the hole / plug is an indicator, but not considered an accurate one as the majority of the merc cranks had the larger hole. But some merc cranks shared the smaller holes with the 3-3/4" Ford cranks. If you can it is always best to measure the actual stroke.

 

I'm droppin a 49 flattie in my 31 tudor, needed 6" upfront so I decided to z the frame, stretch it out in the front and drop it all at the same time. this is a pic of the car "before"

 

Owned and built quite a few flatheads "back in the day", from stock 21 stud '34 to"/38X3//8" with all the goodies. Love the old contraptions, nothing else looks as good. And the sound of the starter and the engine are like no other.
But I'm just too old to hunt up all that stuff again. "Been there, done that, wore the T shirt out 50 years ago".
But I wish you luck.
Dave

 

another trick to IDing a 4" is that the counterweight will be 6" across where others will only be 5.75" i think