Need some help...Olds engine in a 33/34 Ford???

Yes, I did a search and though lots came up on early Olds engines, not much on exaclty one in a 33/34 Ford.
I have a 1949 Olds 303, and have been heavily thinking about putting it in my 33 coupe. I measured it, and looks to be roughly about 3" longer than the stock flathead.

So heres my questions if anyone has ever done this:

How much of the firewall, if any needs to be cut? I want to run the stock radiator and also the stock Olds fan, but want the engine as far forward as possible. I am ***uming if I ran a 39 Ford ******, the engine won't just bolt up to the ****** in it's stock location and fit, right? Everything will have to move back??

My orriginal plans were to run a 59AB and a 39 box mated to the orriginal 33 rearend. If I go with the olds, I'd like to still use the Ford box and I have a 40 banjo I can use if the 34 won't hold up as well...so the less I have to mess with re-locating the ******/rearend the better.

I really want to run the Ford box and rear, may be a dumb idea with the Olds. Any comments? I have seen it done a lot in old pictures, and not looking to go tear the thing apart. But also don't want to build it to fail.

So, any info/suggestions/advise would greatly help my decision. And yes, I am and idiot

Thanks y'all

 

put it in the rear and build a lakes car ***

 

Could just buy a fire suit and cut the entire firewall out.?

 

Brent, you always bring up "putting it in the rear".

 

Chris,
the 33-34 is the tightest engine compartment(correct word?) of all early Fords!
I even had problems to fit a 59AB eingine in my old `33 .
The fan setup was the biggest problem...

So the olds will be a tight fit.. maybe with an electric fan in front of the radiator....




I don't see an improvment with a `40 rear IF your `33 rear axle is a V8 version.
It has the pinion support and takes the 35-48 r&P with some machining.


Michael

 

You'll need to cut the firewall if you run a mech. fan (and I know there is no question on that!). Actually, I'm surprised how many 33/34s on here are running Rocket motors. I'd say at least 10 or so. I'll be running a 324 in mine.

 

Chris - here are a couple of pics of modifications I made to the firewall in my 33 coupe to install a 53 Cadillac 331 engine. The pics are old and were taken before I finished the firewall. I am also using a 39 Ford trans and a 40 Ford rearend. The Cad engine should be similar to your Olds 303 in dimension. You will have to use the same trans adapter, and they are easy to find - because guys swapped a lot of Cad/Olds V8s into early Fords back in the day.

 

Thanks a lot. Running an electric fan is out of the question. I would base my decision on not running the Olds because of this if it came down to it.

Thanks for the info on the rear, I did not know about the R/P. I have heard that 34's had a pinion support, but never heard anything about V8 vs. banger. Is there a way to tell from the outside if it has one?

 

Looks great! So is your ****** moved back and torque tube shortened?

 

Are '33/4's more "tight" in the engine compartment than '35/6's???

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=382028

Wait....you do know that 303's have overhead valves....right?

 

Hey Chris, jrblack30 might be able to help on this issue. He has a '34 3 window and he had a pretty unique way of recessing the firewall so that it's hardly noticeable so that he could run his 331 Caddy motor. He is also like 6'6' so he knows about saving space. I see the car in person and it's definitely rad.

As I found out with the Olds engine in my new '35 you are probably going to need the Olds Started change over so that is does not interfere with your steering box. An Oil Fllter relocation kit is also needed to save space down low.

GOATROPER02 has small starters which can be used to clear the steering without changing it over to the other side. Not sure what they look like but they might stick out like a sore thumb on extremely authentic builds but definitely worth a shot.

Hildebrandt as well as Offy and Wilcap all made trans adapters to hook Olds engine to early ford ******s. GOATROPER02 seems to be a wealth of knowledge with this stuff and can even set up the correct clutch and flywheel etc to ensure that everything properly functions.

Last week I was bidding on a Hildebrandt Oil Filter relocater and I could not find top bid. I kept bidding and bidding and bidding and it finally ended at like $180. It was a little to much cake for me to pony out with out knowing for sure if I was going to run the ****er. Now I sort of regret it because I know that part is going to be difficult to find again.

All this Olds talk has me back on the wagon concerning running one eventually in the my '35. ****.

 

Have you measured from bellhousing to fan? How much difference is it there???

 

Olds- tip of waterpump shaft to bellhousing- 56"
flathead- tip of generator pully to bellhousing- 53"

 

Alrighty. I normally forget to measure from end of bell housing forward and concrentrate on the engine bay is is dumb of me. There is a lot going on with swapping an engine besides just the dizzy forward I guess.

 

I wonder if there is a water pump conversion like the HEMI (BBC water pump shorten's the over all length by a few inches I have been told)? Does anybody know of a smaller water pump that would bring the fan in a few inches?

Resplining the drive shaft has been discuss a bunch of time on here and it does not look to be more complicated then a qualified machine shop can handle. The torque tube is all you!!!

 

There is no V8 vs four R&P issue...all were the same. Four banger driveshaft was slightly shorter than V8 one in '33-4, transmission was slid back to match be reversing the mount! '33-4 rear probably about same strength as '35-48.
I ***ume the fan to bellhousing comparison above is '34 type engine setup vs Olds with early Ford adaptor on it...there were a lot of different flathead fan lengths, and of course neither end of actual Olds block nor stock Olds bell would give a useful dimension here.
The four banger, or keeping it available, was I think an afterthought in 1933. The engine was too long to fit in to the very cramped V8 space, so they had to not only shift it back with the short driveshaft but to shorten its waterpump and move the fan belt back too, since the clearance issues are worst at the top in '33-4.

 

Similar question as to length on this thread wanting to put an Olds in a '34. I responded with a pic (Post#10) showing firewall length to radiator and front fit of the flattie.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=386918

Jim Leis
AKA Blown49

 

Suggestions? You want suggestions? Throw away the bango and trans. Find a four speed and an 8" or 9" and never look back. It would be a completely different car than anything you have, more of an early fifties car and you could rat beet the hell out of it with no worries. Modifying the firewall to make it fit could be artfully done so it would look halfway stock. You'd have a car with a clutch you could side slip and burn rubber all the way down the block......or just another flathead car with the same old ****, not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

measure again. That can't be right.

 

I had a Olds mocked up in place on the 3/W,... locating the engine and leveling it out,.. I was using the turbo-hydro 4 spd & Bronco 9".,... when I got it into a place where the radiator & hood sat where it was suppose to,... the back of the valve covers were even with the firewall, and the distributor was about 2" into the firewall,.... my firewall was already cut so , no big deal.

Try to follow me here, If I were you, I would take the stock welds out of the firewall and just try to move the entire firewall back into the cowl a few inches,.. (or use a 1935 Ford pick up firewall,... If memory serves me correctly) modify the center "X" member and move the trans back accordingly,.... of course you would have to shorten the torque tube, and re bend the shifter mast...... or use a open drive trans and rear end center, like out of a truck,...

( I just re read this and kind of confused myself,... so good luck with it.)

 

Harms Way, I think what you were saying about drilling spot welds out and recessing the whole thing might be along the lines of what jrblack30 did. But for some reason I feel like he may vertically sectioned the firewall instead. I hope he speaks up about this and lets us know exactly what he did to make it fit.

 

So was this only for 1932?????4-banger rear axle has no pinion support and V8 axle has one?
My 1933 had a 1932 banger axle then........???

Well to tell a 1932 v8 axle from a 4banger... the wishbone on a V8 is straight where
a banger axle kinks(word?) in at the rear axle

On my 1933 i had a generator mounted fan that was probably an inch long.......

Michael

 

Not really true for '32's, even.
The "B" type rear (unsupported )was the only 1932 rear up to the last month or two of production. When the new "18" rear was introduced, ***embly plants were instructed to use remaining B rears on four cylinder vehicles. I am not sure whether anyone knows for sure if any late fours got 18 rears at ***embly but I suspect that they did. Ford would not have had tons of components stockpiled, they would have been built as a flow into the process I would think. '32's with the 18 rear are actually pretty scarce.

 

You are right Doug. I have been measuring rearends a lot latley, and got my numbers mixed up. The Olds is roughly 34" long from bell to water pump shaft, the flathead is roughly 3" shorter than that...but not at the fan. When looking at my stock 34 engine, the fan sticks out quite a bit further...probably making it as long or longer than the olds. I think th problem will be the distributor at the back of the olds, and ho theres a lot going on at the bottom front of the olds (timing cover, crank and balancer all stick out way more than a flathead). may run into crossmemeber issues.

I'll pull both engines out in the next couple days and try to get exact measurments. All I can do right now is hold the tape measue were I think the bell ends and look strait down the tae at the other end to find te length. No to accurate

 

I have thought a lot on this, too. I have a nice early 9" out of a 57-60 Ford pickup sitting around...at least the bolt pattern would work

I'm really on the fence doug. A part of me wants a super traditional car: Flatty, 39 box, banjo, ect...but another wants a car I can hop in, drive anywere ad run hard. I'm really leaning tward the latter. The only thing I dunno is what ****** I'd run. I like top loader 4 speed Fords, but anymore they are spendy!

Think, think, think.....WWBD (what would Bruce do )

 

When you measure the Olds, ask around and get the length from someone for the Olds to Ford adaptor ring...measurements without that won't give the picture. You also need a good sense of the front-of-engine geometry...'34 is much tighter at the top than bottom there, the reason they had trouble stuffing in the B engine.
My '32 sedan hulk was once Olds powered...It has simple tabs added to the radiator perches on the front crossmember meant to move radiator forward right about 1".
If you have the Olds-to-Ford adaptor dimension, you can set the engines side by side for scrutiny or even dangle the Olds in the ch***is and use the radiator itself as a measuring tool.

 

What? Chris running a 9" and later ford ******????? Dude you may as well buy my '26. Your almost there!!!!

What about a flatty with a T5 behind it and a closed drive line conversion? I am really liking your idea of running the Olds with the early ford ****** and a banjo. I think it would be a mortal sin to have anything other then a Banjo popping out from under that car. The ****** could go T5 in my opinion because everyone talks about just how much more car you get with two more gears on it. Rolling Bone drive their cars everywhere and I think they all run t5's.

- '49 Olds stock or lightly cammed motor witha tree deuce setup
- '36 (3.54) rear
- T5 or Early ******
- Closed driveline conversion
- 7.50's out back 5.50's up front

That sounds rad to me......wait a minute. That really does sound rad!!!! I may take this advice and run with it. Pretty much all of it came form you on my '35 with Olds thread anyways.

 

What's "super traditional" anyway? A pre-ohv hotrod? WTF?
A "super traditional car" doesn't have to be a flatty powered, 39 box, banjo, blah, blah, blah car....
Plenty of cars built late 50's-early 60's that don't fit that bill and can be (or were back then) a "run anywhere, drive the piss outta" hotrods.....you don't need "new" parts to go fast, be reliable and look cool.....

 

Olds rear, Lasalle trans...

 

Mmmm that'll work!!!

Still nothing nicer then a Banjo aesthetically speaking.