Need to prove to inspector that 34 axle is strong!!!

I'm guessing its probably the drilled part thats bothering him. Might be a hassle but, why not just put a stock un-drilled axle in it, get it inspected and put in the drilled axle later?

 

Put on an axle he likes for now. Then switch it after he approves it.

 

Second That...... There is always more than one way to skin a cat...

 

Ford axles have won at Indianapolis and been pushed to 400MPH by the Arfons, but probably their hardest use was by depression era farmers. I've never heard of one failing, and they bend without breaking if subjected to violence.
As I see it:
1. Hotrod experience and history shows modified Ford axles to be plenty strong. This is unfortunately not easily documented or quantified.
2. The heat and the actual drop distance change both obviously weaken the axle, and the engineer knows that. The fact that the result is plenty strong cannot be proven.
3. You're screwed...engineer can readily document his side, and doesn't even need to do that since he's the authority here.
4. Throw on a stock axle, change it a year from now when the fuss goes away..

 

put in a new super bell , get the car certified, switch out the new axle and put in your 34 axle, then sell the brand new superbell.problem solved.

 

^ Agreed. Or just put your dropped axle in and drill it later...

 

Enjenjo is right. Tell him that every bus, 18 wheeler and delivery truck is completely unsafe and must be taken off the road immediately.

FWIW - Don't rock crawlers also use a similar solid front axle technology??? (I guess it's not transverse leaf)
http://www.erau4x4.com/PreviousNewslettersTrailReports.html

 

Sounds like the same problem we have here on OZ, just use an acceptable axle. Presuming he wont can it on 'bad technology' even with a stock axle then change it at a latter date. I know it will cost more and things like that are big dollars outside the US but it do or die.
Doc.

 

i grew up in NS down on the south shore, now i live out on Vancouver island, at one time i held an inspection licence in NS, yearly inspections would be tough as they are big money makers for the shops that have them, they usely wont turn a blind eye, its is to bad that NS is as strict as it is when it comes to hotrods, i dont think you would ever be able to run a car fenderless, i'm sure the guy your dealing with takes his lawnmower in to get the sparkplug changed, are there no hotrod clubs in NS that could help you out?

 

Scary to think how few hotrods would be on the roads here in the states if that sort of "inspection" ever happens here.

 

Your dry wit makes me laugh at how true this statement is.

 

You gotta go one of 2 ways here.

He's either a tech inspector type, or he's a kingdom builder that will take any power he feels he can grab.

If he's the "tech inspector", showing him craftsmanship is the answer.

If he's a kingdom builder, then once you DOCUMENT his ignorance, you go straight to his boss and get rubber stamp approval, or get transferred to somebody else. Even if they're in another province.

 

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Thanks,
Kurt

 

wow cant belive hes putting you through that show him a nail head with a frount axil setup
if he gives you problems fill the dropped part of the axil tho it not nessisary
Im a mechanical enginnering student and i know its safe as can be as is
they are made to twist with wishbones it is how ford desined them to deal with stress

 

So I guess he hasn't seen many trucks, busses and motorhomes that still use that old horse and buggy technology. Oh and weren't most of the roads encountered by that old technology rutted, gravel instead of nice smooth blacktop and concrete???

 

Why not give a try at working with him? If he signs off on your axle, then you'll be paving the way for others. Give him some numbers to work with and see what he comes up with. Try SAE 3140 as mentioned below:

I think you'd wanna start trying to convince him now, not after he denies it.

Like others said, heavy-duty vehicles use them. Along the line of what he may be thinking, there are warnings on truck frames not to weld, drill(?), etc. them.

Either Squirrel knows it off the top of his head, or it can't be found. I'd be surprised if you find numbers for a 70-plus-year-old axle. I won't be surprised if Squirrel knows.

Thanks,
Kurt

 

Thanks everybody!! With all this added advice and knowledge I think once the guy gets in the shop we'll be able to convince him.
Ignore that PM Bruce.
-Stevie D.

 

What's in it for HIM to sign off on YOUR determination of what's safe or not?? No, seriously - switch places - put yourself in his disinterested shoes and have someone who's skills you know nothing about want YOUR stamp of approval. I mean he's not a hot rodder - how does he know this has been done for a zillion years? Taking the personal feelings/opinions out of this and it seems to me you're starting out by asking HIM to take a RISK for YOU. Now OTOH IF (a big IF) he's reasonable AND YOU do your homework, provide him with some facts, figures maybe even a calculation or two and just maybe you can pull this off. Assuming of course you can come down off your high horse. I know I sound like I'm on HIS side - but THAT'S the part of your problem RIGHT THERE - choosing up sides!!! If you continue with an adversary mentality then there is a pretty good chance that like most "contests" there will be a winner and a loser and since he's holding all the cards - I'm gonna guess HE will be the winner. SO - I think that just maybe - IF you choose to work WITH him you stand a far better chance at winning him over. Sure we can all make fun of engineer's and chuckle ourselves to sleep at night, but who in the hell designed all this stuff to begin with???? Nope - seems clear to me - you need to fight fire with fire - and THAT means - do your homework!!!! Print it off and use it to make a slam dunk case to convince him.

I work with Engineers everyday - some are clueless and some are amazingly smart while others soemwhere in between. When working in this environment one of the things you learn is that you have to be able to "prove" your design. Sure it make take some of the "cowboy fun" out of the process, but sometimes you gotta play by their rules.
Have you asked him what kind of data would you need to satisfy his concerns. Might be a good place to start.

 

Good post. It is indeed important to keep in mind that if he approves your build, then essentially he is exposing himself to potential liability should the axle, or any other critical part, suffer a failure (however unlikely that may be). It's not enough to look at the axle and others like it and approve it. He needs to be able to back up his determination in a court of law.

 

heres a guy you may want to talk to, http://www.remuda.ca/contactus.php

 

Buildit with stock axle, swap later. Fight will be long, bloody, and will go to the engineer...the truth on axles, beyond the original steel specs shown, cannot be documented and anyone who is not a rodder (meaning everyone you have to deal with) will certainly believe an engineer on an engineering matter over rodding tradition.
Wnen you do the swap, remember to put tape over the holes followed by a quick shot of spray paint for annual inspections...
I think I can find strength numbers as well as the already poste het treat and formula stuff, but that is irrelevant--engineer can just point to the heated area to show that factory steel is no longer on spec.

 

I think Hemi puts this discussion in perspective ...

To that end; I would suggest that you contact several of the axle manufacturers, and ask - VERY politely - if they could share some technical information that WOULD satisfy this engineer.
(be honest with them and explain the situation; you never know; you might be talking to one of the manufacturers Engineers!)
And with that information in hand; use it to prove to the engineer your having to deal with, that what you intend to do IS SAFE!

Because it's THEIR product - dropped axles - that's under question; I think they would be MORE than glad to share it with you.

 

drilled axles are illegal down here...what a crock.

I had mine certified by me.

 

Also, don't aircraft use lightening holes in their structures. Removes material, but doesn't affect the strength of the support.

The engineer would probably say that an aircraft is not receiving multi-directional stress like a front axle.

 

Hey Stevie,
Sorry I never back to you sooner after the pm. Had to lay low to try to get my silly heart beating right again. Good thing I'm not a drummer .
I'm still waiting to hear from the guys here with straight axles who had him check out their cars but the short story so far is that the drilling is the nasty bit.
All the guys have said that showing him quality work really helps.

Joe

 

I haven't seen anywhere what you are planning on building except that it is a vehicle with a dropped and drilled 34 stye axle.
I have to agree with the guys who say install a qulity aftermarket axle or a stocker to swap out later.
Now for the big question. Exactly what are you planning on building?
Will it resemble a modified late 20's early 30's car or truck or are you going for the straight axle gasser look with a later full sized body with the early axle?
The main thing for that question is that the finished rig has to look like it was intended to be that way from the get go and not something stuck together as an afterthought. Some insight on exactly what you are planning on building might help the guys be able to give you some help on what to do to make it work right.

 

IMHO :
Any Engineer worth his degree knows that nothing is stronger than the weakest point , soo , Without Further Adue : Look at this pic , and then tell me what you belives to be the weakest point : Axle .. Green arrow , OR Shackle : Red Arrow ?
I have taken apart several early Ford front suspensions ( with stock And Dropped axles ) , and all of them have had issues conserning shackles / Perches ... . Like worn , or just worn beyond repair ,... AXLES ? : ...NEMA Problema : Not a twist , Not 1 crack ..
Klaz

 

The graveyards are full of giant killers. He's the boss in this situation, so rather than fight him and his government appointed, beauracrat ass, just go ahead and play his silly game: install a stock axle, take it and have it inspected, then swap in the hot rod piece that night, after he's put his "Adolf Hitler" on the form's dotted line.

Why battle to convince him you're right? You'll spend much less time just swapping axles.
-Brad

 

I just told the guy that it was stock axle....he hasn't seen the holes in yet!!!

He really did not approve of using a straight axle set up no matter what early axle it was.

Again, I just want to be well informed and educated on the subject, from an engineer's perspective....when it comes time to make the final judgement call I may need some data to give him if the judgement goes against me.

Just try to do it a little quietly Joe....hahaha. I don't need to heat myself up any. I was actually quite surprised to see a local on here!

Thanks again everybody.
Steve

 

Good point! hahaha. I kind of left that out eh?

It's a custom made 28-29 chopped and stretched CC PU on a pinched duece frame. Split 40 bones, dropped and drilled 34 axle. F1 Brakes, steering, and original 42 ford column and wheel. In the rear I'm running an early 9 inch located by 1940 transverse rear spring on 35-36 rear bones that were modified into a streetable and raceable ladder bar set up. Bias ply firestones and 40 ford wheels.

I want the truck to resemble a late 50's early 60's hot rod, as far as the body paint and most visible pieces are concerned...only I plan to use a more modern drivetrain...351W and C6...for streetability and speed.

Not to mention I can buy parts for the drivetrain most anywhere on the road.

This is gonna be my daily driver.
Thanks for asking!!!