Hot Rods Need to shift (finished) body on frame: 40 Ford

You could section the quarter panels to move the rear fenders to center the wheel.

Wheres Rube Goldberg.

 

I've plumbed and measured front/back/diag, cross member, axle, known holes, this frame had to be welded on a jig to be this accurate. Real axle is within 1/4" laterally. A bud who does Autorama level cars looked at it and said he would loosen the core support and mounts and slide the body over, but he's swamped with projects and can't do it (lol). Yeah, that idea seems like a potential train wreck? It was tunnel rammed raised gasser look, I detuned and lowered it until the clearance problem, I want to lower the rear further. I would have thought getting the rear axle off square would cause other problems but obviously everyone and their mothers have done it here so I'm ready. Off hand anyone know the source of adjustable blocks? Thanks!

 

I don't think anyone here is suggesting you put the rear end in out of square.
Pete

 

Sometimes it's the fender opening that is slightly off. If you're saying that everything else, frame, wheelbase etc is square and plumb, then likely the fender. Check that.
You may have to compromise, to keep rear end true to the front, but get the rear centered in the opening.
As far as adjustable blocks, I made my own, out of rectangular tubing, using a short allen head bolt, for the top of the centering pin.

 

.............So, is this an aftermarket/ home-built frame and not the original '40 frame? Sorry if this has already been answered.

 

..........So, maybe the original builder/owner had a bit of "altered wheelbase" look when it was at a gasser stance and when you lowered it the offset rear axle became more obvious and apparent. Still, it seems the real answer (like most have indicated) is to relocate the rear axle, not try to move the body. Hopefully I'm understanding what you're looking for.

 

I must be missing something here; if the wheel is 3/4" off on the driver's side (looks a lot more in the picture); but the passenger side is OK and the chassis is square; there has to be something out of whack with the body or fender.

Have you measured the fender openings in relation to the rest of body (front fender openings, "A"pillar, etc) and compared with the right side.

Park it on a pretty level slab and use a carpenter's square to drop marks on both sides from the wheel centers, front and rear of fender openings, front and rear of the running boards, etc. Also drop marks for the front and rear centers. Move the car off, snap some chalk lines, and do some more measuring.

Had a car once where the axle housing was warped on one side from excess welding, measure square at the spring saddles; but was about 1/2" off at the fender opening.

 

Moving the rear end is the right thing to do. Also, if it has original rear fenders, the wheel openings are not the same from side to side. If the body was ever involved in a hard hit on one side, the fenders may not be in the same place front to back.

 

I'll go against the flow. Move the body. When you've done that you can come back with a new thread 'my front wheels aren't positioned right in my fenders'..........

When doing your marking out for your new blocks remember to only move the pin 1/2 of how much the axle needs to be moved! I've used appropriately sized aluminium blocks (off cuts sourced on ebay - just needed cutting to length - width and height were perfect.. Easy to drill and tap. Use allen headed screws (as already mentioned). Make the blocks identical, obviously, and you wont have any issues with squareness. Simple work.

Report back! With pics!

Chris

 

Are you talking side to side being off or front to back? Everyone here is thinking the wheels aren’t centered in the wheel opening. Or is the rear end closer to the fender on one side versus the other. We really need a better explanation.


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Unbolt the rear, keep it in place and shift the rest of the car forward.



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If anyone knows 40 Fords it would be ol,scrounger. I'd listen to what he has to say.

 

I can get a pic on this reply and then Hamb gives me a "security error" message and removes it?

I didn't describe this correctly, my bad. Left rear tire is forward in the wheel well from being centered, right rear wheel looks reasonably centered in wheel well. In a turn I frequently get a tire rub. I know the 40 Henry frame, rear axle/front cross member are "square", measured front to back and diagonally. I believe the body with new floors done was placed upon the frame diagonally to the frame. The builder put a helluva lot into it, lost his rust belt job and seriously PO'd, put everything up for sale and left the State. I think he rushed the final assembly and didn't true the body. As said a rod builder looked at it peripherally and advised me to shift the body. I wish it was as simple as moving the whole axle. So I thought we were talking about only shifting the rear axle backwards on the left side to align the tire in the wheel well? Stick with me here please, I've been playing with this car for 10 yrs.

 

That's a good explanation on what could be going on. Yes, PO may have bolted it down a bit off. Drop some plumb lines from door hinge locations, various body points, and compare to the respective drops from the frame. See what @RichB says above.

 

Most 40's will have one side that looks off. I have made offset lowering blocks to compensate. Use the Speedway adjustable ones that Olscrounger posted about. Not to be rude but I think that you are over analyzing this.

 

I’ve read through this thread twice, and forgive me if I missed it, but is this a stock frame and original style floorpan?


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So if you measured from outer edge of running boards to frame at the point where the running boards attach to the front fenders and back fenders, is there a difference ( assuming your running boards are correct and in good condition ) have the braces where the running boards attach to frame been altered or are there spaces or washer. Been 20 years since I installed mine ( sold car).but as I recall they bolt to frame and if frame was off or car not sitting correctly on frame you would have a problem fitting the boards.

 

As said-move the rearend-weedburner 40 knows what he is talking about-fenders are seldom the same side to side. This is easy. Tape a plumb bob at center of fender opening on each side (a piece of string and a nut) see what it looks like--I suspect 3/4-1" back will get you very close. Done it on many 40's Of the 15 40's (just counted)that have we have fooled with the majority needed the rear end moved back.

 

I gotta move on before this car kills me. I'm going to start with a 4 wheel alignment and then replace the rear springs which sit too high, whatever differential exists will be mitigated. Your points Weedburner and Oldscrounger are well taken, the body fitment is too good to mess with, probably been massaged already to get it where it is. There goes my covid money.. THANKS to all for the support!

 

IF I could cross the border, I'd take a drive and give you a hand. Sometimes an extra set of eyes, tape measure, and string can go along way to correcting the problem

 

If the axle is square to the frame, but the fenders are different from side to side, you are just gonna have to split the difference. Move the axle evenly front or back so you have the closest to center in the wheelwells as you can. Maybe it's 1/2" too far forward on one side and 1/2" back on the other. Nobody will notice.

As for "buying" the special lowering blocks, I say just make them. How wide is the spring? How much drop do you want? Go buy some 1/4" square tube with those dimensions. And when you are drilling the holes for the locating pins, do your offset on the side that needs fixing.

 

If you lower the rear of the car, it can change the position of the wheel in the fender hole. Might be the direction you want, might not.

-Abone.

 

I ment to mention this in my post , does seem to be sitting high as mentioned on several post. Willing to bet just by lowering you will see some improvement and that is probably the simplest fix recommended.

 

was this resolved?

 

@40 Flier was last seen July 20th 2020.

Hopefully he will come back and tell us.

 

It has only been a couple of weeks, he said he was planning to replace the rear springs, so he may not have been able to get them yet if he had to order them let alone install them and get a 4 wheel alignment done!

 

I have owned a '39 Ford convertible, a '39 standard, 3 - 40 coupes & 2 40 sedan's and a 40 pickup.

I have moved the rear axle back on every single one of them to center the tire in the wheel well, it's not rocket science.

Move the rear axle back. HRP

 

Well, it is bugging me . Don't know why but it is . As I mentioned in another post , the running board's attach to the frame and if the car were slanted when set on frame, the running board would not be snug up the frame at or near the rear drivers fender. On the opposite ( passenger) side , the board would be setting out a bit from the rear pass fender . Been a while since I did my 40 but as I recall , there was not a lot of wiggle room. Without having all the exact measurements of the frame and body, I can only guess but for the body to be slanted enough for the wheel to move forward 3/4 of an inch ( being it is longer that it is wide) , it would be WAAAAY slanted. If my thoughts are correct , it would be easy to spot and the fix would start with lowering the rear end which as noted is way too high , and probably the root of the problem . Raising the springs on the back side of the axle can cause the axle to move forward as well but being on side is off more that the other according to the op, it could be a combination of several things. If that body is off enough to move a tire forward 3/4 of an inch I bet there are other fitment issues . Just my opinion based on a lot of assumptions. Would love to know the measurements from front and back of running boards ( outer most point) to frame on both sides and the fitment of both running boards to the fenders , front and back on both sides.

 

THIS!

 

I am not saying this is the problem but on those big round fenders that are mounted on the body like that, moving the "flared" part of the fender behind the wheel will manipulate the opening. if there was damage, dent or rot that moved the back of the fender and it was not fixed correctly it will close in the opening. also any changes to the mounting surface including where it bolts to the running board, will reshape the POSITION of the wheel opening.
this is why a pre-build of a car is absolutely necessary