Which do you prefer? Got any tips on the needle scaler? I've been using angle grinders for years but never had or used a needle scaler. I need to clean up a Model A frame that was stripped bare 40 years ago and has 40 years' worth of inside storage humidity rust on it. Since stripping it this thing has NEVER been outside except for transporting from Ed's shop to my shop. Unfortunately, neither shop has any humidity control and the only heat is with wood, which usually isn't burning. b-t-w; I've got 11 angle grinders, so I never have to take the time to change the wheel. Just lay one down and pick up another one. I'm pretty proficient with angle grinders but would I be better off to buy a needle scaler for this frame?
I know you asked an "either/or" question but why not have it sandblasted? I think my sandblast go-to guy would charge $100 or maybe less if the rust is as light as you described but I don't think it would ever exceed $150...tops. He's about 35-40 miles from my house and if I make arrangements in advance he blasts things while I wait. Sandblasting can get into places that would be difficult with either a scaler or cup or flapper wheel. Lynn
Angle grinders are great for a lot of things but I am pretty picky about the finish on my frames. I prefer sand blasting, epoxy primer, skim coat of bondo and block it with 180 on an airboard to remove pits. Then primer, wet sand to 400 paint/clear.
Only use I ever had for a needle gun was cleaning welds or removing mill scale. If you use the cup wheel, it's going to be a lot faster unless the side of the spinning wire wheel closest to you catches an edge and throws the grinder, wheel and everything back into your leg, arm or crotch. I've mentioned this elsewhere on here before but, you've never lived until you rip the front out of your Levis and tear your skivvies off. Been there, done that and managed to keep from involuntarily changing genders. Mama was not amused when she had to bring me some fresh skivvies and jeans to work.
Lynn, I didn't mention that currently the frame isn't "bare." I'll be replacing the existing engine/trans anyway, so it's not an issue to remove them. However, I hadn't planned to remove the 4-bars (at all 4 corners), the axles (front and rear), the springs, steering, etc. Also I'll (obviously) have to remove the body. I suppose that the radiator and shell would be removed ahead of time regardless of the method used. I do have a really good sandblaster only about a mile from me. He's done several items for me. If I decide to strip the frame down to ABSOLUTELY bare I'll probably have it blasted.
I have had great results using a needle scaler. Different angles of attack are useful, and usually at a 45 degree angle to the work. Old, hardened grease, undercoating, or caked dirt just pop off. Then wire wheels for a finer finish. I just have a cheap import and it works. Hard to explain but I kind of shape the pattern of the needles by encircling them loosely with my fingers so they follow the surface I’m working on. Your results may vary, but I find it extremely handy.
you mainly use a needle scaler when you have heavy crusty rust to remove Quite often on welds, I used to have to rent them for the boiler mechanics when they cleaned up the ends of the boiler tubes to inspect them in a plant I worked in 30 years ago. I was always glad that I wasn't the guy using it. Unless the sand blasting fees in your area are exorbanent I'd have to agree, That should be faster and far better especially if it is only light surface rust.
Well, thanx all. I guess I'll strip the frame down completely. And the sandblaster will get some more of my business. Should I have him epoxy prime it while it's there? He's shot other items for me with epoxy.
I would just to eliminate the flash rust clean up and prep work you would have to do at home, its a big piece to handle... That way you bring it home primed, then just paint it after a good wipe down if the finish is good etc.
I never have good results getting things clean with a wire wheel. Probably because I know the difference. They leave enough that I’m not happy, they sorta burnish the surface and rust. A needle scaler does great things. It’s great at knocking off big stuff, rust scale, anything flakey or stuck onto but no longer part of the original comes off. It’s kinda messy but most things simply fall off or don’t fly too far and aren’t traveling very fast, vs flinging the **** all over the shop at 10,000 plus rpm. Needle scalers are also great at creating a texture surface. Say you’ve got a cast part that you ground on, it can put that sand cast texture back on. It’s freaking awesome at making new stuff look old. I love my needle scaler. Neither one will give a good surface for a picky frame owners paint job. I haven’t tried it out yet but I just got a $35 attachment for my pressure washer that turns it into a sand blaster. There’s water additives that stop the inevitable rust but haven’t tried those yet either.
My only problem with wire cups and wheels is that they send wires flying everywhere. Not that I WON'T use them, it's just that I hate the trade-off of picking wires out of my clothes. Blasting is more efficient imho, but I don't have access to one right now. Got a ton of electric sanders, though...
Atch....I think you're coming to the right conclusion. I can't speak for you but quite often I find myself looking for and trying to justify plan 2 when I know that plan 1 is really the best option. So....just what is this mystery Model A you're working on? Lynn
Me too. So a couple of years ago I bought a leather apron and solved that problem. I highly recommend using one. Seems like I got it from Amazon for $25 (+/-). Long story but I'll try to condense it. My best friend Ed died a couple of years ago and left it to me. The frame is an original Model A frame that's had 4-bar suspension & Vega steering added; as well as '32 rear frame horns added with a '32 gas tank. Ed and a mutual friend built this frame in the 80's and then Ed went on to other projects leaving this half-done project sitting all those years. I told him many years ago that should he ever decide to sell this car please let me have first shot at it. I was floored when, after his funeral, I got a call asking when I wanted to come pick up my Model A. Some time if we ever get together in person again I'll fill in the other 90% of the story.
Thanks. You and Ed must have been pretty close. I can understand that it would be a very special "keeper"! Best wishes on seeing Ed's vision through to a runnin', drivin' hot rod. Short of catching up in person sometime, keep us posted here on the HAMB. Lynn
I've been running angle grinders for a long time now. I have 6 or 8 so I don't have to change wheels at all. That being said I bought a cheap needle scaler a couple months ago and could not live without it now. It knocks all that hard loose **** right off and leaves a smile on my face while doing it. No getting stabbed with wire fragments or trying not to rip your hands off, m***ive dust cloud in the air. Just a running air compressor and junk falling right to the floor. It has it's limitations, but I regret not trying it decades ago.
Folks, I'll plan to have the frame sandblasted, BUT, how 'bout recommendations for a scaler that won't break the piggy bank and won't get much use? Sounds like it might be handy to have around.
I just bought the HF one. Might upgrade to a name brand when this one burns up, but who knows when that will be. One thing they do well is get into tight corners. I wonder if anyone has a suggestion for a small one?
The HF one will be fine. Basically, buy a cheap needle scaler and spend the remainder of the cash on really good hearing protection! They will destroy your hearing if you use one unprotected.
I've got a scaler that a friend either swapped or gave to me years ago. Don't think I ever used it beyond trying it out some years ago. I'd spend your extra money on something else. Depending on what you want the finished car to be........ If its going to be a driver without lots of detail, I'd just paint over the surface rust with Por 15 . If you are looking for something quite a bit more spiffy, I'd sanblast and paint it like @BanditBilly said. Just remember to make all the mounts and changes before you do either one or you will be grinding stuff off again for welds.
The needle scalers aren’t equal. Some kinda work like ********y brush and some kinda really smack the hell out of stuff and will straight up dent 10 gauge material. That pistol grip scaler from HF ain’t a bad tool for general duty stuff. I’d say mine gets 3-4 hrs a month use and I’ve had it for 10 years.
I'm with ya here (hear???). I started this over 10 years ago and it still holds true: hearing protection; unwanted advice for the younger set... | The H.A.M.B. (jalopyjournal.com) Thanx. While it's going to be a driver and never a show car (I live in a gravel road) I still want this to be better than average. Ed would have done it that way. 10-4 on having the mounts in place before paint. I'm thinking engine, trans, exhaust, etc. Thanx. This is probably the quality/price range I'll look for if/when I buy one. Is the pistol grip easier to use than the ones that are cylindrical?
It’s easier to hang on to but a little tricky to get some places. I’d say 95% the pistol grip is better. Sometimes I’ll stick a sawzall in tight places and s****e the sides. Run it slow
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