Just now learning about the fate of many a new camshaft thanks to the EPA's involvement with the use of additives in oil...or lack thereof. To create a "cleaner" oil, they've mandated stopping the use of most antifriction additives, which has caused cam failure in new engines, especially ones with heavy valve springs. According to Comp Cams and Crane, they're recommeding the use of a break-in additive for its initial purpose, as well as with every oil change. A local (very reputable) engine/dyno shop reported a large number of flat cams after dyno runs, even some mild cams with hydraulic flat tappets. If you're building a new engine, or just recently acquired one, look into this before firing it up.
Just use Shell Rotella Diesel oil. It still has all the old high zinc formulation and will until sometime in 2007. Zinc is the main element they have been taking out of oil and what helps break in a cam easier.
Thanks for the heads up RF. I think I read something similar in HOT ROD. I just rebuilt my engine but haven't fired it yet so this isgood info! Josh
The Lucas Oil Tech guys tell me to use a quart of this http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=25&catid=2&loc=show in place of one of the 5 quarts on oil on start up and breakin of a new engine.
Yes, the break-in additive I mentioned. Use that after each oil change too. Another thing I learned last week about oil really caught me off guard. A really good friend of mine works for Red Line. Obviously, he'd filled my head with all these great things about Synthetics. Turns out that synthetic oil is actually detrimental to engines due to it's 0 Total Base value, which basically means it's highly acidic. BMW is currently in a situation where the synthetic it puts in their '06 models has actually been disintegrating oil filters within 4,000 miles. The thing that got me was the fact that synthetic is just as "cheap" to produce as mineral-based (ALL oils start with the same base but just formulate their own additives), yet they're able to get the price they charge (600% mark up) because people have been lead to believe how great synthetic is. Mobil 1 has had more formulas pulled from the shelves than they've had on the shelves. GM will no longer be using Mobil 1, or anything synthetic for that matter, after 2007. Then there's the whole deal with synthetics in racing...
Happened just recently to me, used 10w 40 valvoline and break in lube, lost the cam after only abot 4 hrs of service in my 460. Called comp cams and they told me to use rotella T diesel oil, to break in then mix 1 qt of it in with my choice oilf every change. was about a $1500 failure, metal shavings got into a bunch of stuff.
That's funny, my Uncle has always been su****ious of synthetics. Looks like he has a reason to now. Thanks for the info Rob'str
RacerRick: Are you using the Rotella Diesel oil exclusively? Or are you changing it out after break-in/running-in for another oil?
It's always a good ideato break in a new cam with light valve springs. Then change them out after the cam is broke in. Just my $.02
The same thing happened to me this week, with only 325 miles on my car, I contacted COMP CAMS the only thing that they offer is to send your wasted cam in to them and their tech guys will decide whether to replace it or not. As for myself the metal particles that flowed through the oil journals destroyed my bearings as well. This month's HOTROD magazine on newsstands this month has an in depth article about the problem. My oppinion is that they used inferior lifters which then results in cam failure. The ***** of the whole thing is, here we are the comsumers "little Guys" out there just trying to have fun and building something to be proud of, have to suffer while big companys don't hold any responsablity for there cost cutting attempts to make a buck. The thing that ****s is my cars in jack stands, motor is in pieces, and I am left to foot the bill for a total rebuid because of corporate greed!!!!!!!
It's time to switch over to roller lifter cams....that's how the new cars get away with using the **** oil
All true. Recently both CIRCLE TRACK and HOT ROD have done articles about current oil being unfriendly to older cars with flat tappets (and about bad flat tappet cores). The Studebaker Drivers Club has for years been advocating diesel oil (not fuel!) to keep the old cars going. Besides having zinc and detergents, apparently there are anti-rust agents so if someone does not drive their car real frequently, its protected inside. We can blame the tree huggers but the coprporations benefit greatly from this....accelerated wear means more sales for them and moving up to a roller setup is costly. I'm thinking I'll just replace the flattie in my '53 Mopar with a Mopar 8 (hopefully big block, maybe 360) and look into roller lifters. Comp now has retro hydraulic-roller cams for the LA engines and Crane has them for the LA and for the B/RB engines. (Of course there's always the solid rollers but the profiles for the hydraulic rollers seem more street friendly..... .600 lift is a little more than I need for cruising!). Of course its a fortune to spend for a whole setup!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And how quickly do the rollers wear out???? After reading all these posts, my thought is: **** corporate greed!!!!
I second the EOS..... I use that stuff for break in lube on all kinds of expensive motors (Porsche, BMW, etc.) I have also noticed that most cam manufacturers do not do a god job of cleanup after grinding.... I always take a small file and "break" the hard edges on the cam lobes. Since the lifter usually rides on the edge of the lobe, those sharp corners can really chew up the lifter face..... Also, the use of Diesel oil is good on these old bombers.. in addition to the above reasons, it is also partly Hygroscopic (sorry for the big word this early... ) Which means it will wick up and encapsulate moisture. If you happen to own a car that has to p*** smog (your parts chaser, wifes car, etc.) it is not a good oil. When it gets past the rings, the burnt oil will cause the smog machine to start waving gross poluter flags.....
Or maybe it's because the cam blanks are being forged in China with who-knows-what material.....?????
I wasn't aware anyone went 4k without an oil change. A year ago I was invited to a new owners meeting at the local GM dealer and they were already telling folks not to run synthetic. They also pointed out that there wasn't a vehicle on their lot (they are the oldest and largest GM dealer in the metro-plex) that would run on Gasahol or at least not one that would run and get milage and power stated on the window sticker. Interesting stuff, I was asked to explain to the new car owners the whole alcohol thing I guess because I didn't work for 'em or something like it. it made me fell a little uneasy, i do alright in the pits with a bunch of gearheads but its an entirely different story trying to explain something to the Tie wearing public.
Good info ******. I have been running Rottela T in my boat and motorcycle for a couple of years now, good stuff maynard.But the price has really went up this spring but what hasnt? RLS
Squirrel: "It's time to switch over to roller lifter cams....that's how the new cars get away with using the **** oil" Great idea Jim, but where do I find roller lifters to replace my mushroom head, small stem solid lifters in my Y block?
A local friends fresh 460 ate the cam last week, we were shooting the **** about it over beers and a retired engine builder recommended using rotella and removing one of the valve springs from the double spring set-up for the next break in. s.
any word on how recent the additives were pulled? I've got a a year and a half old 350 with about 600 miles, may be too soon to know if the damage is done I used break in lube liberally, should I just add a quart of Rotella when I change the break-in oil?
ahhhh.....ummmmm...I was talking to the Chevy crowd...... Do the mushroom lifters have trouble? seems they could make the head of the lifters pretty big and not have to worry about lifter wear so much.
We ran into the same problem on or race car last year. Lost a brand new cam even with break in springs. Fond out alot of racers were haveing the same problem. When the local moter builders got together they found out the problem was with the moters not running racing oil. They then found out about the additives they are now leaving out of the streat oils. As I understand it the additives are still in the racing blends. Anyway we went back to a racing blend and no more problems
Hey RF, AHotRod covered this maybe about a year ago. There were good p/n's for additives etc. I don't think he started the thread but you could search under his user name maybe.
. If you happen to own a car that has to p*** smog (your parts chaser, wifes car, etc.) it is not a good oil. When it gets past the rings, the burnt oil will cause the smog machine to start waving gross poluter flags.....[/quote] I did not know this.. I use 15-40 Delo or Rotella in everything I drive, and the wife's car too. Her car runs great, but almost gross polluted for NOX last smog check. I figured plugged egr tube, or converter.
EOS is loaded with all the stuff that has been removed over the years, particularly zinc. It is a must for any motor with a new cam, especially during break in. Stay away from that Lucas stuff: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm I've also been running straight 15W-40 Rotella T in my Flathead since it's last rebuild for the reasons already mentioned.
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