New Chrome vs. old chrome and...

Sumpin wierd is goin on... I build parts. I take parts to chrome. They come back to me all chromed. Wrapped in newspaper.
I live in Texas. East Texas. High humidity. If you leave your hotrod outside it will rust. The chrome will go to **** and you will have a pile of junk in no time.
My wife is kool. She lets me bring my chrome parts inside. In the computer room. They are right behind me as I type this. She understands about the chrome to **** thing.
But, now then we have two newer pick up trucks. They stay outside forever. Daily drivers. We dont give a ratz behind about them. But the chrome stays GOOD. Why? We never clean it.Why does Chrome on the trucks at Walmart parking lot stay good and Hotrod chrome is so sensitive to the inviroment? What do the factories do that small chrome shops don't? Dang, I wish our hotrod chrome stood up like the factory chrome does.

 

my favorite chrome is "tool" chrome.
It seems like old quality box end wrenches etc. keep there chrome forever.
Sure it gets a little scratched up but with all the abuse but rarely any peeling.

Any difference in "show" chrome and "tool" chrome?

TP

 

Rusty chrome is traditional. I can not explain why new chrome does rust.

 

Not to mention the color. My old Cragar wheels have kind of a cool blueish tint to the chrome. New ones don't. Somebodys cheatin' on somthing somewhere. I replaced the front bumper on a small OT GMC dump truck i redid with a new one a couple years ago. I got the new aftermarket front bumper from a buddys body shop. It was rusting in a couple weeks.

 

yeah something is definalty ****ed up with chrome it rusts way toooo fast. u see junkers that have been laying neglected in the field left for years with some decent chrome. but yet when i get chrome that i wax pretty often it would only last a few months outside.

 

Maybe they are skipping a step? Might have to do with the economy as of late?
Take the '49 and '50 Fords. Chrome was good, lasted like it was supposed too. Then Korea broke out and Ford stopped the 'br*** step' in chroming due to the war effort, hence the '51's chrome rusted damn near off the show room floor before you got it home.

I dunno.....it's just a guess.

 

EPA?
Hexavalent?

 

easy... plastic doesn't rust.

dan

 

Back in my "motorcycle" days I used to get a lot of stuff chrome plated. It tended to rust too quickly so when I asked the plater they told me that they only use a 2 step plating process, nickle and then chrome. The good platers use the old tried and true 3 step process of copper, nickle, chrome. The copper is what helps seal the raw steel, I won't ever get anything chromed unless they use copper.

 

It has alot to do with the use of trivalent chrome vs. the old hexavalent chrome. Hexavalent chromium poses far more health hazards than trivalent chromium. Hexavalent chromium is cl***ified by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) as a known human carcinogen. The use has been regulated so much that it is rarely used.

In short: Trivalent chrome is much safer to work with, more expensive, and is not the same quality as "old chrome".

Alot of issues arise when the old hexavalent chrome tanks would leak into the ground, get into the ground water, and cause alot of issues in the nearby communities . Not to mention the hazard to the workers.

Alot of EPA superfund sites are based on old plating shops. I used to work for a contractor that cleaned them up. We did one in Appleton that was so bad that when it would rain the runoff into the street would be yellow with Hex chrome. Nasty.

 

Nothing I have ever had chromed from Advanced Plating has ever rusted, and yes we get humidity here in Michigan as well. I often go out to my unheated garage and everything has a coating of "sweat" on it.

 

ok now that we concluded that its **** what do u guys do to help prevent rust? do you clear coat it? wd 40? what are some good tactics to fight it?

 

??? my chevys chrome has held for ten + years, outside, without a speck of rust. I just wax them with the same 3-m stuff I wax my car with.

 

Hexavalent Chromium is what the whole Erin Brockovich case about the contaminated Drinking water in Hinckly CA was about.

It is still used in the chrome process by shops that are EPA approved for it.

 

does anyone know of a list of chrome shops that are EPA approved to use hexavalent chrome?

 

The three metal coatings are COPPER, not br***, NICKLE, and CHROMIUM.
The most important step for rust prevention happens before the copper coat, that is starting with clean steel.
Copper is the glue that holds the other metals to the steel and fills imperfections if you have the money for the plater to do a few times.
Nickle gives the plating luster and that fine "blue" tinge.
Chromium is the wax that protects the nickle from tarnishing.

"Korean Chrome" which often has the "green" or "orange" tint to it is missing the nickle. The copper is polished and then chromed.

 

Wax is the best preventive measure to keep chrome finishs bright and unrusted indefinitely.

 

Denise and Rob Paul are right on. Advanced Plating still uses Hexavalent Chrome, they also use cyanide copper and acid copper. This is a step that a lot of plating shops do not use, by the way chrome doesn't rust it's what's under it that rust. My 2 cents worth.
Butch/1

 

cool anyyone have the number or website for that place?

 

If you weren't already married........
Ya know how I love a ******* dude, and for you to say I'm right, well sounds like a match made in heaven.


Google is my friend

www.advancedplating.com

1425 Cowan Ct
Nashville, TN 37207
(615) 227-6900

 

Except...linkee no workee...

R-

 

Hey whats the deal here? I just typed a 20 page dissertation on chrome & I got timed out & lost it!!?? I does say quick post, but I don't type any faster than I think...

 

There's your answer.

 

Redo, if it's a long post type it in notepad first then copy and paste it to your post. Once you lose one once, you'll not want to again

 

Your a crackerjack...

 

Apparently there is a lot of confusion with plating.


The durability all depends on the thickness and adhesion of the nickel/chrome layers. The nickel is the biggest surface protectant, and the very thin chrome layer gives a bluish tint (with hexavalent, blackish with trivalent), and potects the nickel itself from corrosion. Copper is for looks, it does not help prevent corrosion unless it is ridiculously thick. It's too porous. If your parts are rusting within a year , then your plater is cheaping out on the nickel/chrome plating, or you are sprinkling corrosive substances all over it. If your parts peel, its the platers fault, period. If your plating has yellowish spots, you are looking at nickel where there is no chrome.

Here is something I wrote up for another post, it isn't an exact answer here, but useful I think:


"Let me see if I can clear anything up...

It is very true, you get what you pay for. Prep work is about 95% of the final outcome. Then there is the plating itself, which is, by nature, extremely fickle, and can make a perfectly copper-buffed piece of beauty come out of the nickel bath with any of a large ***ortment of possible plating issues. All chromers WILL have plating/personell troubles, the good ones will fix 'em and keep in business. Guys who are good at custom polishing are hard to come by. They need to have the "eye" for it, it is an art. If they don't have it, they will ruin parts.

EPA ****s, and loves to take money, lots of it.

Make sure your potential custom chromer has:

-Cyanide copper strike-. This goes on first, creating a suitable base for the thicker acid copper to adhear to. It also allows pot metal to be soldered with out fancy pot metal rods. If this plating doesn't apply correctly, nothing applied over it will.

-Acid copper- this is like a high build primer, very useful and neccesary on most old parts. I don't think it really helps durability because of the porous nature of copper. If this plating doesn't apply correctly for whatever reason, cursing ensues. it is thick and hard (not impossible) to remove when bad, without hurting the base metal.

-Bright nickel-, this is another fairly thick layer of plating that is essentially the final finish and the majority of the final finishes' durability. If this plating screws up for whatever reason, see acid copper above.

-Chrome- A flash plate of very thin chromium. This replaces the nickel's yellow hues with blue, and protects the nickel from oxidizing. Its also an extremely hard surface. If this plating screw up, its easy to electrostrip, rebuff, and reapply. The actual chrome layer is so thin, an abrasive liquid polish can hand buff through it if not careful. Do not use abrasive polishes on new chrome.
Differences in Chromes:
-Hexavalent Chrome is what all cars from back in the day were plated with and makes the "blue hue" in the chrome.
-Trivalent chromium is a bit of a blackish tint and most anyone will be none the wiser until the 2 are put next to eachother. Durability is identical as far as I know. It is a more eco-friendly plating.
We use Hex, because we haven't been told not to yet, and most prefer it.


Make sure they are not just a polishing shop prepping and sending parts off to be plated. This setup can get ugly really fast if the polishing shop gets in financial trouble and their plater holds your parts for ransom. This happens. Also, plating issues will most likely be more common and harder to fix.

Make sure that they can properly plate nickel over nickel. This one is easy for them to lie about. It is not absolutly necessary, but very easy to do and if they don't bother to know it, they are probably lazy. Improper activation of nickel plating is the reason for most new finishes to delaminate.

Ask to see examples of work that they have done waiting for customers to pick up. This will show if they are doing a better than typical job on parts they show off. They should be happy to show off their work, although many shops offer different qualities, and that must be taken into consideration when viewing finished parts.

Triple plating is not going to ensure a nice job, but is a must for any custom chromer. It's also not a must for nice steel and br*** parts; extra nickel plating can be subs***uted for copper, but its a more expensive and time-consuming process for the plater that way. It is a myth that triple plating is the only way to a show-quality finish on all parts. But in almost all cases, triple plating is used, sometimes just because the copper plating makes it easier and less expensive to the chromer, usually because it is necessary.

Pot metal NEEDS triple plating to ensure proper adhesion and to allow proper repairs. Some try to cyanide strike pot metal, then go directly to nickel, then chrome. This skips the acid copper/copper buffing stage, not good for quality.

Another thing. If you have had plating done in the past, and the plating starts to chip off/peel. It is the platers faut (poor adhesion) and they should take care of it. I can't belive how many people have came in with parts that have been rechromed in the last 10 years, and the nickel is delaminated to the point that you can peel it off in sheets. And the place that originally did it said it was not their problem.

The plating process is VERY fickle. Sometimes **** happens that doesn't show up right away (like delamination.) This happens to all platers. Not all will admit that they are a slave to their plating solutions, but they are.

The polishing process is dangerous. Some parts are inheritly more dangerous to the polisher due to shapes, protrusions, etc. and that should be taken into account in the pricing. I got a finger crushed and tore off when I was 19, when copper buffing an oval Stude grill. It got caught in the wheel and took my hand with it. The Doc put the finger back on, but it still aint right. Minor injuries are almost an everyday thing.

I figured since chroming is like Voodoo magic to many, I would try to clear up the basics as well as my gray matter can. I don't know much, but I know this business. What I don't know, my pops or older bro will."

 

can we send bumpers to your shop - if so what is the address?

 

Right on , Josh .

 

The new shops are nor alowed to use the same chemicals and an the lonf older long established shops. The color of the chrome is different, it has a yellow cast compared to the blue of the. So be careful about mixing these on a car. I found out only after haveing some parts plated

 

Found this older thread. Just wanted to add that in the nickel process to be done correctly in order to save the overall finished product from rusting, there should be at least 2 different types of nickel. First the simi-bright nickel then a coating of bight nickel. The bright nickel is anodic to the semi-bright nickel and will sacrifice itself to protect the semi-bright layer which in turn protects the steel or metal below. Copper as mentioned is porous and is used more as a filler and if done correctly as mentioned promotes adhesion. It too, can be applied too thick as a means to byp*** polishing in hopes of filling craters and such. Also, Hexavalent chrome is superior in regards to longevity when compared to Trivalent chrome as tested under researched studies due to the basic chemistries involved. In addition, try as they will Trivalent has to be colored dyed during the plating process (vat) to look like what we have come to expect chrome to look like namely hexacrome. But wit that said it turns out to me more of a white hue than the true bluish hue of properly prepared hexachrome finish.

..... just my thoughts here to round things out a bit.