Baby's first steps. Today welded the ends in vertical at right angles then bent the axle to get what I felt was right for KPI. Then I made the lower brackets and tacked them on. This is just a rough fit and it will look much cleaner when done but it is supporting itself on the 1/4 elips here in this picture. I will need 1 1/4 inch deflection to put the axle where I want it to be with full load. I think I am ok and will not monkey wth that till I have the rest built. I believe I can work any differences out by adding or subtracting spring leaves but I suspect it is about right as is. So far it is going the way I think it should. Don
Art Morrison did that for many years. I believe it's still shown in their catalog using a wood jig on the garage floor.
And here I thought that was how "Woody" Gilmore got his name! Thanks I was at my pal Mike's today. He is also building a rail (very old school. )Mike is a plumber by trade and had a 3 inch bottom rail ABS plumbing pipe frame all put together with a 1 1/2 top rail so he could get a visual idea and make changes before the steel tubing comes. To be honest it looked mighty cool. Certainly helped one visualize what it will be like when built in steel. It works for him because it is within his comfort zone. Don
I started making the spindles out of heavy wall square tubing. I have a idea what I want but have not tried this before. I have a plan though and if I am happy with the result I will use them. I bought the 1 inch bolts today to make the king pins. I will do quite a bit of machining and will drill them as well perhaps with a 3/8 drill in the lathe. They are however exactly the diameter and length I need. I will use the thread and a nut to hold them in and will safety wire the nut if I cant buy Nyloks in that size nut. After assembly the excess length beyond one complete extra thread will be cut off. Don
Today we brought "The Kitten" (Jaguar engine) into the shop and I started disassmbly. I started removing the Fuel injection elbows and in good hot rodder fashion test held my homemade throttle body which I have made from an old carb by cutting it in half, grinding extra parts away and filling bad voids with JB weld then reworking. The size happens to be exactly the size of the Jag port runner. Once I have this one exactly the way i want i will get the local foundry to cast me up at least 6 (probably more since I am liking the design.) The six throttle bodies will increase the area of the throttle opening by about 23% total. I am planning on Megasquirt for control. Don
Today i dug out my eaton me90 blower. I think I am leaning towards blower on this Jag. Will build a wooden manifold first to see how hard it will be. Don
I am thinking though wouldnt a four inline six cylinder dragster be cool. This engine is 38 inches so i would have to add 114 inches to the car for a wheelbase of at least 244. Naw. I'd better stick to one for now! Still 24 cylinders would sound cool. Don
Another option for your kingpins would be to source some DME brand core pins from an injection molding supply place online, they're much tougher than bolts but can be a pain to machine with that small lathe without carbide drills and tooling...wood jigs work just fine, as has been mentioned Art Morrison still recommends his kits be assembled on wooden jigs in his catalog...what are you planning to use for a transmission and rearend?...
yeah. My nephew works in such a place. i could ask. The trans and diff are hard to answer. I am thinking power glide but I have a working ZFGetrag on the engine. Being of German blood I like the idea of a German trans but maybe i am mixing geneology with Drag racing. I have no trouble making an adapter to fit whatever i decide. I've got a big vertical mill and lots of patience and time. The diff will be my favourite. A 8 3/4 mopar. I narrow them in house and send out the axles or buy a set of SFI axles made to fit. I made a wooden adapter/air box today to fit the supercharger up. After i make all the mistakes on this one I will make it in aluminum. I do this with almost everything since wood is cheap and metal expensive. Very few projects dont need some rework before they are done. This way you can make the mistakes for almost free. I hung it on the engine for the first time to get an idea of what obstactes I may encounter. It looks doable. I am leaving the empty bottom of the intake plenum on the manifold and built the adapter so it bolts to this for support since it is quite substantial and the strain of supporting the blower + belt tension is no small thing either. . I will fool around with this for awhile until i am sure I have covered all the possibilties I need to. I have to set the supercharger forward enough to be able to use a bolt on blower puley in front of the harmonic balancer. Here a a few low res photos of what i did today. Don
Why not just use a Ford or Anglia spindle? I have issues with a fabricated spindle and king pin. If it was the proper way to do it, you would see it throughout the race car industry, but I have never seen it done this way in 50 years of playing with drag cars. The only such spindles I've see made this way are on Go Carts!
Well You wil have to have your issues then. I really enjoy making things. I know I tend to make them too strong so i have that in my mind that they will be heavier and stronger probably than necessary. I want to run Motorcycle front wheels anyway so will build these to fit. I have looked at the front ends of some of my pals REDs and was appalled at what they have for front ends. Not only are they lighter than this they lack some of the basic design characteristics i think are required but yet they dont give any serious trouble safety wise. I have a good understanding of Front end design and why having taught Trade school for several years in the Province . I believe and I do with all my heart that if someone else can built this there is no reason on God's green earth why i cant. It will not be flimsy or anything If it is i will redo it. I enjoy making things. On a longer wheelbase car the loading will be somehwat reduced. Since i will be sitting behind the wheel i will take no chances since i dont like pain. I also Do Not ever go to the track unprepared. If its iffy we fix it before we go. Shops are for repairing, Tracks are for racing .Period! Just hang in there with me while i make it. If you still feel that way later Ok but i think you may be surprised. I already have built a few front axles with used splindles. They worked fine but i want to try this this time. I really believe it will be good. Time will tell. If not I will say to you straight up like a man. "I am sorry i was wrong." OK? Don "If it was the proper way to do it, you would see it throughout the race car industry," But that comment or ones like it mean absolutey nothing to me. I never, not once ever, in my life did not try something because others dont. In fact my wife Linda would tell you. "Dont say things like that to Don. That is just like waving a red flag in front of a bull. All you succeed in doing is making him determined to find a way to do it." I heard all that stuff too when i started making violins for fun. I am currently working on # 8 of those. I got to tell that story while on a guest speaking engagement at the Parrot Galley in Belleville while being filmed for TV. If I had listened then i would never have been there. I live like the Dodge shirts say. "Grab Life by The Horns!" Don
I respect Rich and Norwell's points, but Don isn't some rat rodder. He's been building stuff for a long time and hasn't killed himself yet. I say let him post in peace, I'm interested in the outcome. That said, I don't plan on turning out a set of spindles on my mini lathe because I wouldn't know what I was doing and the end result would be unsafe.
If I think it is not good I wont use it rest assured. But to not try is not something I can do and be happy. Thank you though for your concern. One of the things to keep in mind is that a FED does not have front brakes. A normal Spindle assmbly is designed for front brakes. The load strength there on brakes is and has to be the same or better as a driveline part because of you stop a vehicle of a certain weight the forces are not unlike those that accelerated it in the first place. That is a pretty sgnificant amount of rotational force. It has to be designed with enough strength to handle a full load stop which in the case of many cars even far exceeds the driveline strain in acceleration. Even a 200 HP car can reach extreme speeds given enough distance and time but both a 200 HP vehicle and a 600 HP vehicle many be required to endure the same forces on a splindle assembly caused by braking in a panic stop. HOWEVER these splindles need no such rotational strength because they have no brakes. All they have to do is carry the weight of the car + a good measure of safety say for instance X 2 static front end weight or more even. In a dragster with a long wheelbase and a set back engine that is not a lot. The spindle assmebly should not bend or flex peceptably. I am guessing static load will be less then 350 LBs per wheel up front. (My senior dragster is 300 and 304 RGS and LHS respectively) If I can build these to support 700 without perceptable distortion then they should be better than good. I already caculated the cross sectional area of Steel in them. It exceeds the cross section of the king pin and the axle tube. If I rib them properly and keep everything snug and good fitting I believe they wll be more than strong enough. That said i am not above retracing my steps in a project of it doesnt turn out in a manner i can use without worry and I have done that on projects before. So just hang in there and see what develops. Maybe you will be right but i wil at least know how not to do it again then. I will NOT risk my safety . Of that you can be sure. Don
A long time ago I read that when building a racecar a good engineer/designer/fabricator would be wise to add extra weight where it'd do you some good. Specifically their example was why carry a bunch of ballast on the front end when you could have made the critical parts sturdier. Food for thought.
True. I am not on a build it super light project though. I think I am already in overbuild strengthwise. Anyway I will know soon enough if i am happy with it or not. usually the first test involves me jumping on it with my 300lb+ body. Next usually involves another pal on there with me. I dont want to say too much and paint myself in a corner. I just want to see what they are like when I am finished making them. Maybe they will be junk. I hope not but allow for that possibilty. It is still very interesting for me anyway. I generally have good success with my self built stuff. Don
I applaud you for making your own stuff !......but from the photo, the metal used looks to be on the thin side........well placed weight can be functional and make you faster....soldier on and do your tests, but nothing will be better than it going thru the actual loads and stress it will see during real time use...and that's no time to have a failure...........Littleman
I hope you are going to machine some different spindles, UNLESS you are building a GO KART that looks scary just sitting there.
To Mr. Norwell's question about wooden chassis jigs...one of my favorite street rods, ever, was Cotton Werksman's mid engined "T" street car with a double rail tube chassis, which he built entirely with wood jigs and formers. Surely someone on the HAMB has some old pics of the rather thorough article R&C did of it way back then (1970's as I remember).
Would you guys lighten up? How many have built a spindle or a front axle? If you have show me a pic. Wait til they are done. This is just the first part. It is also a captured King pin like a bolt so it does not have to hold itself together. I thought about doing it in thicker but it seemed silly since what is there is already stronger than the axle and that is probably stronger than the ones on most "built" dragsters. Where is it writtten that spindles must be machined and not fabricated. Nothing is stronger than its weakest part and this is NOT the weakest part. I have thought this through. I think I am on the right track. Some of you or all of you dont.oK. i am fine with that. Now for the 64 dollar question. Does that bother me ? No. I did the math thought it through and am on a mission to find out. It will live or die on its finished strength. I know what it will look like when done. None of you do, do you? I have a racer friend who all the time he is here is saying why did you do it that way? or that will never work. So bad that other fellows follow him around the shop in line saying that to everything said by me in mockery of him. He doesnt even hear them. he has however come here for race engines for 15 years. I keep asking if I am so stupid why is he here. Truthis none of you or me for sure knows how this will turn out. I want to see. is that a crime? I have nothing but time on my hands and i love to build. What is the strength of .800 sq inches of steel? Well it is a lot more than 350 lbs , that i know for sure. I am sure i can double the strength with some judicious bracing. But I know I am an idiot . You wouldn't let your worst enemy drive in it and certainly would never sit in it yourself. Do you think I havent heard this all before? What really makes me nervous is when folks like what I am doing. Then i keep wondering what i am doing wrong. And yes I may have to eat all my words if it turns out to be crap. I am up to that too if necessary. Right now most of you are looking at the cheese and telling me the burger will be no good. Deep inside all of us who make things there is a little voice that tells us. I havent heard it yet on this project. Don
Geez Don, I think maybe YOU need to lighten up a little. Let's review for a second or two: First you show us a pic of what you are doing. A few posts mention caution. You berate us for NOT knowing what your final design will be - well of course we don't we only know what YOU DECIDED to show us. Don't ya think that puts us at a disadvantage???? If you don't want our input - don't post pics and posts. The love fest is two streets up. Guys here were only trying to help. I get it - you don't want help - message recieved loud and clear. Carry on.
You want us to post pics of axles we've built? OK. Heavily modified GM spindles with heavily modified 2000 and newer Harley wheels.
Hey Kerry that will NEVER WORK without a light deflector!! Ha ha ha Hey aren't you due for a progress report??? I'd like to see your latest progress.
FWIW the inner and outer bearings are the same size. I have had a lot of guys telling me that the inner bearing HAS to be bigger. Guess we'll see after the first wheelie. I'm finally getting back into gear Hemi. My mother inlaw died of stomach cancer at the beginning of December. I did a lot of single parenting this fall as Cheryl spent time with her mom. Things have been nuts since. I got a little done tonight. Drilled and tapped the bottom bung of the moon tank for 1/2 npt, put a T on with a drain and a #12 AN fitting. I also got the cap springs sorted out on the mallory supermag. I had modified it to use stock Mopar caps and rotors. I also drilled and inserted some roll pins so the cap can't turn. I'm waiting on a pile of AN stuff for the injection but am really waiting for some warm weather to put the 4bbl carb on and break the cam in.
THIS IS A OFFICIAL THREAD HI JACK.... Hi Jacin and Kerry. Kerry sorry about your wifes Mom. Thats always a tough deal to get through. Jacin . Did you get that remodeling done for the wife? Springs coming hope you guys have a great Summer.. Luke .
Hey Luke, How's it going? Thanks for the kind words. Got any plans to better the 8.40's? I can only dream about the 8's. Heck, I'm dreaming about a 9.50.
The Jalopy Journal
