No. the Poly 318 is a even spaced engine with no siamesed ports. IE IE IE IE. The La is a siamesed layout like EIIE EIIE so even though the cam bearings and journals are the same size the lobes are in the wrong places. I have a good relationship with Racer Brown cams and have gotten some absolutely brutal stuff from him. I also have a friend in TO who does regrinds for me. There are also a couple of cam companies doing specialized 318 poly stuff. I have had some wierd stuff made over the years . Biggest trouble with a Poly 318 and a new grind is fnding a blank core. Most companies will also do a regind on your core if you send it to them. They will warn you there is no warranty which I find really funny. Why? "All those who have gotten warranty on a cam please raise your hands. Must be the lighting in here. I cant see any raised hands" Anyway lately when I can I get my flat tappet cams nitrided. Costs about an extra $110. I would gladly pay it for the piece of mind. IE the custom made cam in my Sr dragster /6 is nitrided. I like building stuff but I now hate repairing stuff so I try to make it so it wont be required when I can. I havent contacted anyone yet about a cam. I just did the math and ran a few simulations to see. What math? you might ask so i will tell you. Over many years I kept an eye on what RPM all the cams I used would turn. Maybe would turn is not the best word. Where the peak power was. Peak power and 1/4 trap MPH have a very close relationship. After awhile I had a figure for Solids and a figure for roller and Hydraulics. Rollers and hydraulics figures are similar but for very different reasons. So I now pick the RPM I can go from Cyl head flow and cylinder volume. From that i get my peak power RPM. from that using my factor and my choice of cam lifter type I divide how many RPM per degree of Duration @050 I have found to work and get duration at .050 required. It actually works out pretty well even make to make as well as just mopars. Cam manufacturer give a power band say this cam works from say 3500 to 7000 but in real life they mean it will go to 7000 without valve float. Peak power is long past . Usually 500RPM back. I use this method of my math now all the time simply because it works. Advanced or retard can vary it some. And lobe centre covers the spread or bandwith if you will. A lot of this stuff I learned, believe it or not ,back when I ported snowmobile engines for racing . I used a degree wheel and layed out the port timing just like a cam grinder does a cam grind. All of the sudden one day the light came on in my head and i realized what we were really trying to do and why we do it. Since that AH HA day things have been very different. Anyway that is how I think. I have been thinking and runnng loops on the simulator program since McTim got me thinking about this 318 Poly idea. I have a plan, not too expensive and work is underway. As my ancestors and German Cousins would say "Malsehen" (Loosley = "time will tell) Don
I will be watching your engine build with some interest, 490 HP is a lot but certainly not impossible. In the near future I am going for 500 from a Y-Block and although some might roll there eyes at that I know it can be done. When you pick your cam I would be very interested in the complete specs, if you don't want to post them a PM would work. BTW if you need a cam core I do have one in my possession.
Ok, You know at this stage of my life I think i would share any info. Makes me smile though. I used to tell my nephew when we were racing for $$$ "if someone asks tell them exactly because they wont believe it anyway." Not that I put you in that box but it often seemed it was the case. Yes I think 500 from a Y block is doable. . In fact isnt there one in Pop hotrodding this issue. just a minute I will look, -----Found it but it was 477 HP. Engine was oversquare like my slant 6. Current Cams dont like that a lot. Said it has Mummert heads. I hadnt heard of them. When I was first working in a machine shop after i graduated from "the swamp" to the valve bench (OH HAPPY DAY!) we did a lot of Y block work. They really are a decent motor and i often wondered why they were not more popular. My old boss still does the odd one in fact had one sitting in his shop a few months back. I have played with these 318 polys before too back in the day. They are one of my favourite motors. I figured they deserve one more look. Don
The one in PH is Ted Eatons EMC engine and it is 524 HP and 477 on the torque, he also told me that with a different cam it would make more at a higher RPM but for a higher score he wanted the HP and torque to peak at a lower rpm. The "Mummert" heads are something new and a bit too pricey for me but I think I can get that 500 with the right work on a set of cast iron heads. I hear ya on the "swamp" that is of course where I started and then went to the head bench but shortly after that the shop got a new grinder and I was trained for cranks, it was a good move for me but not for them as two years later I was offered twice as much money by another shop to come grind cranks. 25+ years and I'm still here.
I often thought being a crank grinder would be hard on the back and neck. Was I dreaming or is it so? Highly skilled work though. I loved and still love head work. I found boring boring. In fact it is the one job i dont enjoy. Honing was fun once i learned to do it with the block vertical. (No more almost broken wrists) was almost anal about the fit. I really really enjoyed rod work. Now all i have is my big mill, a couple of lathes and a valve grinder and some seating equipment. What really ticks me off is the guy i sold all the shop equipment to isnt using it at all. Another shop comes in from time to time to use some of it but mostly it is sitting idle. That includes my flowbench. Sorry i misread that PHR test. I should have gone and got my glasses. Cant see spit up close anymore. Yes. They were hampered in that test by an RPM limit and hydraulic lifters which limits RPM to under 7000 in most cases anyway. Don " I was offered twice as much money by another shop to come grind cranks. 25+ years and I'm still here. " I never understood why these shops often wanted one to work for nothing and invariably lost good men to shops who would pay decent. I worked for 1/2 in the machine shop than I was making at the JAG BMC AMC dealer. I was single and a bit wild then and was more interested in learning the machine shop side than i was in making some gold. After i got married money seemed suddenly to be more important. Like you my first venture outside that shop was from a job offer of X2 $$.
I worked on the Poly today. Put the small WCFB intake in the mill and began chewing out the carb holes to match the 2 slot spacer I made. Had my top photographer on the job so maybe he will show us some pics. Went pretty good till the tool bit broke. It is a big thick amount I have to remove and I may have got a bit generous with the feed control. Also started work on the heads. I took the rocker shaft and rockers out of one. Some of the valves wanted to stiick so I threw the whole thing in my reverse electrolysis tank and it is out there bubbling away right now. Don
I always enjoy reading your posts. Your can-do attitude is inspiring. As to the rust removal, for anyone, if you can't find A&H Washing Soda, go to Wally World or any place selling pool supplies. You can get PH Plus (think 5 lbs for $7 or so) or equivalent for cheap. It is the same as washing soda--sodium carbonate.
Thanks. I took the head out and finished disassembly. I really enjoy head work and porting other then the dusty smell. I took my roto-zip come diegrinder and with two toolbits started at the one intake port as I planned. I have done these heads before and in fact my first porting was done on a set of these 318 Poly heads. I have however learned a bit in the last 45 years and so I went to work. I will show a couple of deals here in two seperate post so I can comment appropriately. Here is my porting die grinder. If you want to listen to your compressor all day with your air grinder, fine. I dont. This is a very very practical solution. Don
One needs to remeber when porting the intake that the air comes in from the port not from the valve . I say this because the human tends to think of the port from the valve out instead of from the port in. In these heads an over generous valve giude boss blocks the way to the valve. I removed it completey and will install a new valve guide (Cast iron!) of reduced stem diameter (.312" instead of the current .375") Since replacement guides are .500 inch in diameter I will machine the end of the guide where it protrudes through into the port so that it will still have a good wall thickness. (Same as a .375 stem guide would have on the same core) . That will give me a reduced diameter. I will also limit how much comes through since I will be driving about a hundred miles in the next five years instead of 100,000 miles. I also raised the top of the port by just over .125". All the activity takes place in the top of the port so that is where to work. Very little happens down below. I will complete this intake port completely to establish it then copy to all the rest. Water is close on these heads so I have to be careful. I cant go as big as I would like so i have to optimize what I have. Don
This is the valve side view. The ruf work done I will change to a finer longer tool bit and blend. Valve size will be 1.94 with a .312" (5/16 stem) Don
I am no artist but here is a concept drawing that better shows the changes than the pictures do. Guide boss removed completely.( it does absolutely nothing anyway), downward tip of port at the manifold joint removed and raised. Manifold will be spaced and ported accordingly just a tiny bit smaller so any mismatch wont produce a sharpe edge hanging into the air flow path. Don
Not so hard on the back and neck but it's rough on your feet standing in one spot. I don't do just cranks though so I get to move around. It's nice being a one man operation, no one touches your stuff and you know what's going on from start to finish on each project.
Yes I was here by myself too. In fact if someone came in I quit as I found it too distracting. Vern is ok because we worked together many years ago and we know how to stay out of each others way and how each other thinks but anyone else I stop machining . My feet don't like standing in one spot either. When you said that I could almost guess your age. ;>). Understand exactly.!Don
Hey Don Have you used the stone type burrs From Brezinski (spl) I did alot of work on a 250 Chevy Head along time ago . They worked pretty good. Bob
NO I havent. I buy mine at CTC . They have a six pack they sell, i have used for the last probably 20+ years or so. I cut first with a carbide for the rough chew then switch to stone for the final. I am a bit shy of brand named stuff. Might be my old Schwaben heritage. ("cheep cheep cheep") Don
Hey Don, I just posted a tech thread on porting the old Y truck heads. Have a look, I wanted to help the guys who think that the factory "big valve" heads are the only game in town. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=549186
I ve been there already. Very cool. I love the surface finish your planer gives (Must be a Peterson Berco machine!) The serdi does a wonderful job of profiling the pocket. All the ponies hide in the pocket I believe. In my book I recommended using the serdi or sunnen equivalent to profile the pocket and then blend. Always does a real good job. I had an ancient IDL machine here although it did have adjustable speed . I often had to be"creative to do that stuff but later I took the heads out and had them profiled just like you do. Results were excellant. I have been thinking of whipping together a quick mechanical flow bench to see if I could come up with a way to bench test flow for comparison that could be easily and cheaply made. My wife got a new Dyson Vacuum so I inherited the old one for the project. I may not get time but it would be fun and practical. Too cold here to be in the shop. Hopefully it will warm up a bit. Don
It's actually a Van Norman maching (made in Italy) does both boring and surfacing. Very good machine, here's a little video of it in use. It does the big stuff as well as my Y-Blocks. <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4sKSTUgBBu0?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4sKSTUgBBu0?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
It was. I sold all the shop equipment about 6 years back to one guy whose wife worked at the bank. I finished the engine for the Lemans practice car I had been hired to build and figured to go out on top. The privilage of being asked to do that motor and the success it has had was more than i ever hoped for. It seemed a good time to quit. He bought all or nothing so i sold it all. That machine a Van Norman 562 surface grinder (wet)a Van norman 944S boring bar, A van Norman rod aligner, A Peterson valve spring balancing bench , A sunnen Rod hone (very old and slow but very accurate. ) A Tobin Arp cap cutter , An IDL seat guide machine, A quickway portable seat machine (for Flatheads) A pin press and snap on Pin press mandrel and a Smithy Lathe Mill Drill and my home built flow bench. (man do i miss that machine!)Also a Sunnen rigid hone (you know , the wrist breaker type)and all the mikes and guages. I have since snuck a few pieces back in the shop. I just play now mostly on my own stuff and sometimes help old friend racers who need some help. I am physically well worn and have a severely busted rib cage so it was time to stop before I made mistakes or croaked. Anyway here is a link to my most famous motor running at Lemans track in France. http://www.olympia-charger.com/2006/07/dolmetsch_built.htmlThis was for me the highpoint of my career. I am still in touch with the guy too in fact was talking to him early today by Email. This was a big deal to me. Don
Very cool! Something to be proud of! Maybe someday I will be asked to do something like that, for now I'll just have to be content to build race engines for my own old beat up Fords. I tell everyone that I have my dream job, I'd rather do machine work than anything else, although I do have to do some jobs that I would rather not. They all pay the bills.
Well from what I have seen of your work you are very good at your craft. Keep on sluggin Don Cool music meistro!
Here is what we started with. The holes are very small as it is a manifold for a WCFB Carter. After about 5 1/2 hours on the big mill with a 3/4 inch end mill I have it rough machined to here. Still have a lot to do but the manifold itself is quite good. The runners are full size for the ports and even have some taper. If they had been built like this instead of like above ? MMM. THe deep side is almost 4 inches of solid cast. It doesn't come out in five minutes. The easier you go the better the job too. Back at it this morning. Don
http://motors.shop.ebay.com/items/mikuni-fuel-pump_W0QQ_nkwZmikuniQ20fuelQ20pumpQQ_newuZ1QQ_sopZ1 Yesterday we were talking about fuel pumps and pressure over at Rocky's thread. Here are the pumps i was talking about.They are used on everything from snowmobiles to Ultra lites. They are reliable and low pressure with good volume. It takes 1/2 pound of fuel to make 1 HP for one hour and that is how I caculate pump requirements. An averge one of these from a hiperf engine will supply 100HP plus. Probably need one pump per stromberg or as in my /6 rail I could run 2 carbs per pump. They operate on the pressure spike from the intake port. I have never tried them on a 4 stroke but will borrow one if possible and see if it will work. I see they are used on Jr dragsters so most likely they will. They are very reliable and it is not unsual to have never had to fix one on a well maintained and properly stored machine. Maybe it isnt practical the idea of so many pumps but dripping carbs are no fun either. They would need a line to the carbs vacuum port (manifold vaccum) and are probaby better suited to IR manifolds. Anyway I intend to find out if they will operate if my /6 4 bbl intake now just because i want to know. My carbs had pumps built in to everyone of them. I took them off because i had not enuf room and ran them from a mechanical pump . Maybe I was a bit hasty removing them. Got the Idea from a stunt aircraft website (removing the pumps and converting them to mechanical. )He was using them on a Aircraft converted corvair motor. Don
Spent part of the afternoon continuing milling the manifold. Then I took the other cylinder head apart. All valves but one were siezed . Two very solidly. Put the head in my reverse elect tank and almost missed supper because I was doing my Don Ho imitation at full volume as I watched the solution at work (tiny Bubbles ...... de de dee de dum!) and didnt hear Mrs D knocking on the bedroom/shop wall. Don
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