Projects New Project: 1953 Oldsmobile

Oh! Forgot to mention, I threw in one of the lower link bars today. I know it’s simple measuring, but it’s still a relief to see it fit so perfectly.

 

What kinda half-assed duodecimal Summerian are ya?
Me thinks you confused yourself with numbers.
Since one side is stopped, the opposite side will now have twice the output ratio.
With every 1.63 turns of the pinion shaft you will see 1 full turn of the drum/axle shaft.
When stopping one side of the differential the axle on the opposite side will now double in speed.
Turn the pinion shaft ~3.26 turns and the unclamped axle/drum should rotate two full turns.
A less confusing way would have been to rotate the axle/drum two full turns and count the pinion shaft turns. That would give you the actual ring and pinion gear ratio.

With a in/lb bendy bar torque wrench, measure the amount of torque needed to turn the pinion.
~8-15in/lbs for used, double for new bearings. Will need to find the specs for the differential to be sure. If the initial is tight but it spins easy when moving, that might be a tight seal causing stiction. If the resistance changes, even when maintaining a constant rpm, then something may be bent. Rotate pinion around and see if the tight spot is in the same clocking. If you find you are chasing the tight spot it may be a bearing issues(bad roller).

84-90 GM B/D body cars, powered with a 307(140HP/180HP net) Oldsmobile and backed with a Th2004R had gear ratios ranging from 2.28, 2.41, 2.73, 3.08. There were 3.42 options for tow package cars, possibly 3.73. (80s B body wagons were ~4200lbs, your car is ~3800lbs.)
These cars also rode on either 215/75R15 or 225/75R15.

205/70R15(6.70-15) is the tire size for the smaller 50s GM cars, Corvette, Chevy Sedans, etc.
225/70R15(7.60-15) is the tire size for the Olds/Buick sedans

Your car is lighter, more powerful(455), and has lower gearing(3.26) than an 80s 140HP/4200lb 2.41 geared B body wagon.
There will be no bogging issues. Well not from a lack of power.

Pretty common with flat link chains, if the timing chain was replaced with a nylon coated cam gear the slop gets wild on Oldsmobiles. I'd suggest a roller timing chain. Flat links are pretty stretched out by 50Kmiles and they start to chew on the sprockets making it worse. 64-90 Oldsmobiles eat flat link timing chains. If the timing is off that's how much the flat link chain has stretched.

Verify the timing chain is timed correctly. It's not dot to dot, its 12 O'Clock position for both cam and crank sprocket to be TDC #1.
This normally doesn't really matter on a rebuilt or when the distributor is removed as one can easily rotate the crank 360° to get the camshaft in the #1TDC position.
But when installing the distributor, especially HEI units, need to have the rotor clocked correctly or you will be fighting the spark plug wires to reach across the engine.
If the sprockets are left dot to dot then the distributor needs to have the rotor lined up on #6, not #1 for correct orientation.

It also wouldn't hurt to port/polish the rear main where the oil pump mounts as the castings can be rough, as well as a bit of porting on the oil filter mount that bolts to the block. With newer quality oil filters the bypass valve is often plugged as well to prevent circulating unfiltered oil. The spring gets weak in them as well.
If the heads are off, there is a step between the heads and block on oil return. This can cause the valve covers to flood with oil. Slight porting around that step aids in oil return to the pan. As is the Olds likes to pump lots of oil to the top end.

 

Gear ratios... ugh... with my dyslexia I have to pull the pumpkin and count gear teeth...

 

Did you hear about the Dyslexic agnostic? He didn't believe in dog!

 

Groan....

 

Engine is back! Got it cleaned and primed today. Decided to go with the raw aluminum finish on the intake, but did paint it.


Also went to the junk yard today. Picked up a yoke and driveshaft for $30. The driveshaft is way waaaay too long, but hopefully it’s not an issue to cut down and balance. Couldn’t find the dipstick or tv cable, so those are coming from summit.






Hopefully I can get it all painted this week and put the engine and trans next weekend!

 

Oh! One more thing.
I found a delta 88 at the yard today. Not a 455, but all of the accessories would fit mine (not sure on water pump length. I bought a bracket from vintage air already, but I’m thinking stock brackets would be neat to have instead. But that also means moving some wiring. Just playing with the idea. Might go back and get them next week.

 

If it's not a 400, or the other 400, and not a 455, then the brackets may not work. Deck height changes would require slight differences between the upper and lower brackets for the alternator and PS pump as well as the A/C.
Would need to grab all the brackets and pulleys and spacers and various bolts/nuts/washers/spacers/stud-bolts that were used on those brackets. Olds seemed to love to screw around with bracket geometry/spacing even over a couple years. It's an all or nothing gig. Gives me flashbacks just thinking about it.

BTW I hope you're not basing if it is a BBO or 455 because it has a 2G carb sitting on top(can't tell what year 88 that is). Olds did have 10.25:1 2G 455 and a 9:1 2G 455 in '70. These were rated 320/490 & 310/500. That whole weird internal HP war/insurance rating era had some seriously flawed numbers coming out of Detroit.

 

A 455 Olds tale and how I realized there are 2 water pump lengths:

I worked in a shop and we had a kid of 18 working with us part time. Some brain trust gives him a water pump job on a 455 Olds 98. The kid thought he knew it all. Someone suggested that he spray the gasket with sealer on a piece of cardboard, use that as a template to keep the pump bolts in order... nah, I'm okay. He throws all the bolts and nuts into the pan of coolant under the car as he goes.

As soon as he goes to lunch, some wag goes to our old hardware bin, adds a random handful into the coolant pan.

So the kid gets the new pump on and gets to attempting to finish it up... then realizes he has 2x the hardware that he should have. He has a melt down and me and another guy finish it up before closing time. We were down to the wire, putting belts on... they do not line up! We call the shop foreman over... he says, button it up. So we did, The car comes back 2 days later with the 'new" pump in a box and a hefty bill from another shop that did it right.

 

While I was at the junk yard, I used an Oldsmobile group on facebook. They helped me check the numbers; turned out it was a 350. I had several people comment saying that the brackets would work, but I think I'm going to stick with what I have. I haven't even tried on the vintage air bracket, but hopefully it will fit! I can always use the crappy one I made, but I've gone to so much trouble at this point, I want to make sure everything looks good!

 

Got the engine mostly painted up yesterday! I love the way it looks. I ended up using a Chrysler blue I had as a base, then used Fusick’s Olds metallic blue on top. Made it a little darker, which I liked.

Chrysler Blue:




And then the Olds metallic on top:




I need to clear it now. I’m thinking about some Oldsmobile text on the valve covers in chrome or silver, but not sure yet. May have to experiment

Might still be able to get the engine and trans in this weekend!

 

You do know that you only have about a 24 hour or less window after base coat to clear it right? Depending on what brand of paint you used.

 

Eesh. no, I didn't. I thought that was a rule just for regular automotive paint. My clear doesn't get here till Thursday. Guess I could hit the local parts store after work and clear it when I get home. What kind of result issues would I be looking at if I clear it after the 24 hour mark?

This car is going back to daily driver status once it's back together, so it only gets to look pretty for a couple weeks.

 

Got a feeling I'm going to get booed for this... but gonna ask anyway. What do you guys think about either of these badges on the valve covers? Too cheesy? I think either would look good, but I like to get opinions. I'd prefer something like these to decals. Also would consider the classic Oldsmobile script.

Someone once told the druggie to do whatever made them happy, and look how that turned out.

 

BJR is right if you used a real, non-catalyzed automotive paint base. If this came out of a rattle can like an engine enamel, I think you're probably fine and the clear is not necessary.

If it is an automotive base, you should scuff the whole thing down with a scotch-brite, reshoot the base, and then clear it.

That's what happened to me the last time I painted an engine. This was some basic black paint on this GM crate engine. I scuffed it down with red scotch-brite and shot it with a couple drop coats of HOK KD3000 white mixed as a sealer, then 3 coats of Shimrin2 celestial white with an effects pack. It was at that point that I realized I had the wrong clear. So I had to let it dry, scuff the new paint down, and then reshoot the base, and then bury it in the show klear. It was a pain in the ass but came out beautiful, and it has held up very well so far.

 

A resounding "no" on the emblems from me. For as much shit as people get on here for using SBCs and Windsor Ford, big and small block Oldsmobiles, Buicks, Cadillacs, BBFs, and so on, are really not HAMB appropriate since they were not available during HAMB relevant times (or if they were, it was just barely). I'm not saying this engine is a bad choice, especially for those of us with customs where we show the car with the hood down. But putting those emblems on the engine only brings attention to the late-modelness of the drivetrain. Just paint it up nice and make it look pretty, or just get plain chrome valve covers. Can't go wrong there.

 

If you are over the open time for the base coat, the clear may peel after a while.

 

86 the emblems its a iconic engine no need to decorate it

 

My bet is that you'll be okay. Most paints with a re-coat window are 2-part catalyzed type. We did a lot of work on Boeing stuff at work, primer-to-finish was an 8 hour window. Good old spec BMS-10, IIRC.

 

What does it say on the paint can about re-coat time for clear? If it doesn't say call the paint company. You want to fix it now before the engine is in the car and paint is pealing all over.

 

Me, I say no to the clear. Just inviting potential trouble. It will look fine without it.

 

I’ll have to think on the engine paint/clear situation. Looks like I can hit it again after a week if I decide to.

So, I’ve discovered a whole new issue putting in the 200-4r. I’m having a hell of a time finding TV throttle linkage for my Quadrajet. Can find it for almost any other carb except for the one I have. Anyone have suggestions? There’s no way I’m the only that has tried to add a TV cable to a Q jet.

Here’s mine:



I’ve seen these available for lots of other carb, but a few Olds guys told me I can’t get the geometry right with an adapter. What are my other options?

 

Yeah, no.
Used to be part of several Olds Cutlass bb forums and mailing lists. There are a couple of guys that know their stuff but it seems Olds, or Cutlass groups, attract a know-it all bunch that doesn't know their cylinder heads from their differentials. I've always thought of later Oldsmobile guys as Ford guys, masquerading as GM guys, while being Mopar Musclecar snobby, just to screw with the Buick guys..

Nay.
455 badges would be good on an OT car, and the blocky 'Oldsmobile' just screams '80's. Great for a 78-80 car, not for a '53.
If you can find the '73 'OLDSMOBILE' stamped valve covers, that could be pretty slick.

I cobbled together a M4M('75-79)Q-jet for a 403/Th2004R project(I think it's around here somewhere) that has the Th200/200C/2004r/700R4 throttle lever bracket installed onto it.

Q-Jets are like SBCs, everyone says they are the same, they are not.
Three basic types are 4M '64-74; M4M '75-'79(up to 86 in light trucks); EM4M '80-90 and all their variants.
I haven't screwed around with one, proper, in a decade.
Pre-'69 model Q-Jets will not have the provisions for the TH350 kickdown bellcrank. So we can assume, without looking at numbers, that your Q-Jet is a '68 or earlier unit.

Easy button would be Bowtie Overdrive 'EZ' kit its ~$300.


You will need to know which CFM variant of Q-Jet you have to match the plate to bore. That whole 1901/1910/1903/1904 shenanigans.
Also, you will want to verify that the geometry is similar to the Olds setup. There is a slight difference in Olds vs Chevy TV cables and the linkage. I forget exactly what/why but there was a slight difference.

Danchuk has #16972 that is for 'All'(LIES!!!) Q-jets. It's just a small bracket that appears to bolt to the TH350 kickdown hole for TV cable attachment... which your 4M does not have.*screams into the void*

This is the part where I tell you having Cliffs book on hand would be nice.*more screaming and broadly gesturing*

Factory TV cable holder bracket that bolts on the back of the carb, IMO, is the best unit. TCI makes a plated, factory type, one for $40.


I don't trust most of those aftermarket TV cable brackets as they can be flimsy and their adjustability can get you into some trouble, some can get the cable pull/geometry kinda screwy. Using factory/factory modified pieces makes it Ronco, 'set it and forget it'.

I'll go scrounge around for my Q-Jets and see what the differences are. But I think I only have M4M and EM4M on hand.

IMHO find a E-Qjet off an 307 Olds(80s A/G/B/D bodies used 307s) ,TV cable bracket, and the TV cable. Certain aftermarket TV cables are not good, stock type replacements are best. You will need the olds Q jet for the throttle bracket. Doesn't need to be a working Q-jet just a good throttle shaft/throttle lever with the TV cable attachment.

 

Mike, you never cease to amaze me with your knowledge I really appreciate you always helping out!

I decided against all badges. Maybe at some point I’ll get pinstriping work done on the air cleaner and valve covers, but I’ll wait and see how the paint holds up first.

I looked at the bow tie overdrive kit, no way I can justify that kind of money. I’d rather buy a new carb (which I kinda did).

I wish I had read your message yesterday, but I may be on the right track. I hit the junk yard yesterday and grabbed a q-jet off an 82 Olds that had a 2004r. My plan is to swap the throttle shaft and linkages over. Does this look like the right setup?


Unfortunately, the tv bracket wasn’t there. I got a check (flimsy) one from summit. I may see if I can return it and get the better bracket.

Here’s the tv cable I went with, think I’m good to go?

 

It has gone up over 100% in price.
If they just sold the throttle valve plate adapters that would be handy.
I'm surprised Edelbrock doesn't sale such a piece, they might but their catalog is a hot mess.

That looks right, all Olds E-Qjets were on top of 307/TH200C/Th2004R combos, both use TV cables.
I recall there is a difference in the shaft of the EM4M vs a regular M4M Q-jet, and M4Ms are different from 4M(your carb). But, again, can't recall what the difference was. Length maybe?
Digital measuring calipers would help you verify what.
And swapping base plates I don't think is an option as they need to both be the same CFM for correct butterfly size/position. And I *think* the E-Q-Jet base plate was a bit more swiss cheesed/holier and would not work on a non E-Q-Jet.
Before breaking down the E Q-Jet watch Mikes Carb Shop video a couple times.


Practice on breaking down the E-Q-Jet before touching your Q-Jet. Lots of small delicate pieces, this is not a leaky lego Holley that can be fixed with a hammer.

Went to my carb stash and only found two carbs, both M4Ms, found a bunch of other stuff too staring at stuff looking like Gandalf...


... getting old suuuuuuuuucks.

Some of those brackets can get you in some serious trouble. It's nice they are available, but for a QJet the simplest one is the factory type.

Looking around all I could find was the TCI one.
No idea if GM still has any in stock(probably not). Pioneer and ATP sold factory replacement units but I cannot find them.-
Maybe give Art Carr a call at CPT. 1-800-278-2277
https://www.cpttransmission.com/catalog.htm
Looks like he uses a 'universal' cable now as well.
FWIW, CPT does sell a 'Q-jet' adapter but it looks like the Danchuk piece, which would bolt to the TH350 kickdown hole... that your 4M doesn't have.

Dumois late thought on the whole matter. Ramblings and such...
Can a TH350 kickdown equipped throttle bracket be found that can be bolted on, from a later 4M, to your 4M? Then the CPT/Danchuk piece could be bolted on, and none of this cudgeling of parts could be avoided(?). IIRC 4M/Th350 cars attached the downshift cable to the throttle pedal directly.
*Dives into rabbit hole, wholly.*

 

I appreciate it as always Mike! I dropped the carbs off at a shop to let them figure it out for me. If they come back and say it doesn’t work, what if I just cut off the tv bracket and weld it to my current throttle bracket? I figure that’s closer than anything I can make myself.


Engine and transmission are back in! Got the brackets painted up and on. Also figured out an AC pulley setup. The bracket I bought used the same belt for crank, WP, PS, and AC, but the belt barely hit the PS. Decided to route it normally and add a belt from PS to AC. Not sure how well it will work, but that’s a problem for the future. AC is not high on my priority list right now.




Most everything is done on the front end now. Almost put the front clip back on, but decided to leave it off until the back is done. I’m starting on the 4 link next weekend!

 

I have done so much measuring over the last two days it’s insane. I thought I had it all perfect yesterday, but then decided the rear end was too far back. Recentered it, remeasured everything, got it set, bumped a jackstand, and had to start all over.

Anyway, lots of swearing later, the diff is where I want it. Lower bars are tacked in place and I’ve cut up the floor to start placing the upper bars. I’m really happy with how it’s coming along. I’ll tack the upper bars next weekend and cycle the suspension a few times and check all my measurements again.

 

Nice work good luck

 

Still making progress.

I ended up starting the 4-link over. Again. And then one more time. I wasn't happy with the location of the axle when I put the side skirts on. I know it was technically correct, but it looked better to me with the axle back one more inch. Plus, with the reset, I gave myself more adjustability room in the 4-link. Pretty happy with where it's at now. Still all just tacked in place for now.

I've been slowly working on the notch. It's always waaaaay more cutting than I anticipate. Anyway, outsides of the notch have been welded in place on both sides. Going to have someone come inspect my welds. Being a sedan, I wouldn't be worried about them, but since I want to haul a trailer, I want them checked out.






I'll probably tack in the top of the notches tonight them cut out the old frame. Then I can cycle the suspension a few times and start figuring out where the bridge and bag mounts will go. Next will be remove the axle and weld it all up.

I also need to make an extension for part of the notch. I'm not sure it's necessary, but it definitely can't hurt.

 

Looking good, this is giving me PTSD from when I did mine. You are headed in the right direction, though. FYI, don't know what your wheels or tire combo will be, but I ended up using 15x5 inch chevy rims (rear end is about of a 70's camaro) to be able to tuck the 7.60's in the rear.