Like others have said 1.75" dual pipes all the way back. Either no mufflers or gl*** packs (Porter steel packs or generic gl*** packs) shorter the better. Posted this before. Stock Flathead, Fenton headers, 1.75" pipes and 16" generic gl*** packs.
Nope - swapped in a 283 and was going to just make new head pipes, but ended up redoing the whole system
I have Smitty's behind my roadster's flathead with headers, 1.75" pipe, all the way out the back, no cross over. My flathead is supercharged and high CR but it sounds sick! In a good way! My wife and friends always know when I am a block out. The sound is whiney, loud, demanding and rather urgent. It almost seems to shout "HOLD MY BEER, I'M GOING TO TRY SOMETHING". I run Porters, headers and 2.5" pipe behind a 330 Hemi (10:1 CR) in the PU (again, no cross over), the sound at startup will scare the cats out of the backyard and all the birds take off like a scene from the Serengeti. It is not quiet! The noise is akin knocking over a tall, oak card file in a silent, hardwood floored library and then running a herd of buffalo through the periodicals section. It is a shocking, disturbing and frankly a bit scary noise that loudly recommends that bystanders take cover and protect their hearing. My 442 is 11:1 CR, headers, 3" pipe with no cross over, out the back with Magna Flow mufflers. It sounds...like a muscle car. Deep, foreboding, authoritative voice. Like that dude teacher/coach you had in school and knew not to f&@$ with. Not a hot rod noise IMHO. It's the sound of the man, and he's looking to lay down some law! In my mind hot rods/customs are the James Dean or Brando types, a bit of droning anger and a strong need to be heard mixed with an unhealthy helping of angst and echoing, non-addressed, emotional issues . That's our soundtrack.
I have to agree with running Porters and 1-3/4 inch exhaust pipes all the way back past the rear bumper and not over 2 inch if you want 2 inch. Go too big and you loose that dual exhaust flathead sound and just end up with a loud sound.
I got a chance to get under the shoebox and no wonder it’s so quiet. It has full muffler. Weird exhaust, I’m not used to it going around the front of the engine. Can you go true duals with those manifolds? I don’t want to just jump and buy any set of headers until I research the better. I also think I am going to start off with straight pipe before any mufflers. I just want to check out the sound out that way first. Short clip I was checking the brakes drivers side rear is a little touchy I need to adjust it. I was going faster on my street but my rear p***enger tire blew a belt about 6 inches long and if I went too fast you could hear it smacking. ****s set of Coker’s done. Not going to run any of them it is probably from it sitting. I have a new set of bias and a new set of of radials both www Coker’s The bias are for the other shoebox. I’m glad I have that extra set I bought when. I bought the set for my 40. Always a pain in the *** to get a shop to mount WWW because they are afraid they will mark them up. You can see where I scratched up my fender skirt on the bottom. https://youtube.com/shorts/Y3mfJ0GWn0g?si=y_2PT8vHyP3LxROJ
This is what is baffling me. I might be sounding dumb right now but these Fentons and every other set of headers have 3 ports that would mean a V6 not a V8 what am I seeing wrong with this picture? and why is the difference of the $100 set compared to the Dentons?
Here's a kit for the stock manifolds. It gives you an idea of what you need, look at the pipe that does a 180. https://waldronexhaust.com/product/1936-53-ford-flathead-v8-dual-conversion-kit/# I also found this old post, it might be worth and email to see if Pat's 52 is still making the manifolds. https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=18&Topic=9560&srow=11&erow=20&sortby=asc I bought my original Fentons used 10 years ago, powder coat (high temp) and cheap on Craigslist. If I didn't I would have went with the U bend pipe.
Well, that ****s hind ***! Buy your wide whites from Diamond back and pay extra for the Auburn deluxe with beauty bar. They stay white, they stay round and more importantly they stay safe. As for the headers, those are good choices above, I used Red's headers on my flathead, had them ceramic coated after welding on V-bands for clamps to connect to the exhaust pipes. V-bands don't look very traditional but they R&R so easily and seal without gaskets. As far as waiting to do headers? Buy once, cry once as the saying goes. Take off the stock stuff and let it breathe.
I talked to speedway today asking what the difference was between the generic headers and the Fentons. Seems like both go from 32-48 and pick backup at 52-53. The generics won’t fit because they hit the steering box. The Fentons will fit if I have the stock steering (which I have). They said some minor fixes might need to be done for it to work. He mentioned that some people have it hit the box so they chang the bolt out to an almost flat one like a carriage bolt. I called the custom exhaust shop here and they only go down to 2” pipe. Might look around some more. I don’t think I (initially) will run any mufflers or gl*** packs. I can always add them later if need be. This way I can hear that sound first. Going to look into red’s headers as well I have seen them mentioned here. Maybe they will cause less issue?
Had a spare set of brand new Coker’s I used them. They were the same size. I read the date codes and 2 were 11/22 another was 7/10. The other one was s****ped when I had the tires put on. The 3 that I have aren’t dry or hard. No rotting or cracks even the 2010 tire. I will put them up in the shed with my bias wide whites for the other shoebox. The set on it now dated 1955 lol. Under the ford rim was pink. I would lay odds they were on a pink/white crown Victoria. I just have them for roll around wheels. They are dry or cracked either. The guy said they were stored inside with no air in them dunno
2" pipe is too big. Find another shop or do it yourself. CORRECTION!!! 2inch is perfect! OK let's get real.... Installing headers on a Shoebox can be a big deal. There is a lot to consider. I'm going to name drop Bruce Lancaster. The late HAMB member Bruce Lancaster also known as the Librarian was a researcher and expert on many things hot rod related, namely Flathead V8 performance in the period. Bruce Lancaster had the receipts. Stock vs Dual pipe conversion (Coverting to duals using, blank offs, curved pipes with factory stock manifolds) Result.... Loss of performance! Same conversion but with dual carbs..... Result.... No gain over factory stock exhaust with a single carburetor. Factory Stock Outperforms dual conversion using stock manifolds. Performs as well or better than dual conversion mentioned above with dual carburetors. Factory stock with dual intake.... Results.... Slight gain in some areas, reduced performance in other areas, possibly overall due to the LOM distributor. 2 94s and the stock distributor can work but it takes getting into the LOM distributor. If this is done....slight increased performance over stock. Stock 8BA single carburetor with true headers and dual pipes. Results.... Slightly Increased performance over stock With dual carbs set up for LOM.... Result...Slightly more performance Mallory distributor.... Better all-around performance.... In conclusion.... There is no gain converting to dual exhaust using the 8BA iron manifolds. Why? The crossover system works to increase exhaust velocity. The p***enger manifold is bigger so the drivers exhaust helps push the g***es through. They work together reasonably well for stock performance. There is a slight gain using good headers on a stock engine. Notice I said good headers. I know for a fact tube type headers provide a slight increase. Some headers my not provide any gain at all. Well-tuned, stock isn't bad and most of the time a well-tuned stock engine will outperform a "Poorly done hot rod." If you want to hear the engine...... Remove the muffler and put a gl***pack on the single pipe. If it's just noise you are after..... Split the single behind the transmission crossmember. To run true duals, you'll need to cut a hole though the driver side of the transmission cross member. It's also a good idea to bend your driver pipe so you can service the master cylinder. Below is the saga I ran into. Technical - Vintage Engine Header Tech (Shoebox Ford) When things get crossed... | The H.A.M.B.
Thank you. Done very good points you have expressed. Frankly, none of which I knew at all. Eventually, I plan on upgrading the engine with multiple carbs, lighter heads, headers. My 40 has 3 deuces. Back in the day it really meant something today not as much just nostalgia because you can do so much more with more modern setups. Many of my friends have said I won’t be happy with a flathead that they are slow and you can’t drive anywhere with them. I tell them if I want speed I will drive my 40 ford Coupe or my twin turbo f150. As for you can’t drive them anywhere? Were people held to the city limits with flatheads? He’ll no they drove them cross country. I was friends with Gene Winfield we talked about a lot of things. His club was Century Toppers another way of saying over 100mph with a flathead. I used to be able to say, “Tell Gene Winfield that a flathead is slow” RIP Gene. I am the type of guy that just doesn’t want to talk the talk, I want to be able to talk the talk as well. What is the best way to do that? HANDS ON!! Reading a book might help you get better on speaking on a subject but nothing beats hands on. I have two 1950 ford custom 2 door sedans both stock the first one was to learn on and cruise. This second one came at a good price and it’s really nice. So I can play more on the first one now. I have a friend in Arizona that had a shop called Old Ford LLC that we talked about flatheads a lot. His daily driver was a 1951 Ford F1. He bought it in 1973 while in the Marines. Drive it until he p***ed in 2023. Doesn’t say much until you get to the part he lived in Cave Creek and kept up with traffic on the freeway. When I say it was original with no modern stuff, it was right down to the bias tires. He changed the engine 3 times in all of those years. The only thing that he did change mechanically was the rearend gears. He called that old truck”Josper”. We met online I had a 52 F1 with a Windsor engine and we hit it off instantly. He used to provide cars for the movies. One off the top of my head was Biffs convertible ford that got manure dumped in it. Took mine out for a cruise last night and had to get a tow home broke my front ujoint. Going to replace front and rear in a little bit and make sure they are greased.
I don't argue with dead people, they always win, but flatheads need to breathe, both inhale and exhale. They more they **** in, the more they blow out, restrict that and you lose the horsepower you were trying to gain. Go for a jog breathing in through your mouth and exhale through a straw and let me know how that goes after the paramedics respirate you. If you have a stock or barely more than stock flathead (or any engine) it likely doesn't matter, if on the other hand you are trying to get to 180-200 HP naturally aspirated out of a flatty or 300 HP supercharged, you aren't getting there without a proper exhaust system. They just don't breathe well. It is the flathead's major issue. Bruce, RIP.
I think everybody is in agreement. The point is that the stock crossover with a single exit breathes better than the sock crossover modified with a blank off on the p***enger front and the driver side pipe exiting drivers front and curled down to underneath to the rear of the car. This was a muffler shop way to get true duals when these cars were new. This actually is more restrictive. Good headers on an otherwise stock engine do provide a little gain in performance. It breathes better. 8BA and multiple carbs...... The main issue here is the stock Loadomatic distributor. Two 94s can be run but it's tricky. The vacuum signal has to be split, and the springs need to be tweaked in the LOM distributor. Petejoe has had success doing this and the procedure is mentioned in the 1957 book, "Fix Your Ford". The stock distributor limits the hot rodder to either a single LOM carburetor or 2 LOM carburetors. The 8BA is not like the earlier flatheads or post 56 V8s. It is limited by that vacuum advance only LOM distributor. You can make an 8BA breathe but it has to have the spark to go with it. This starts to get really technical and brainy. Like most things like this, people choose to ignore it and throw in cams, heads, triples, headers but leave the stock distributor in place. The car may actually perform better and seem peppy but overall performance may suffer. It may lug going up hills, it may run rich most of the time, mileage may suffer, it may run hot a lot of the time. Personally, I think part of the flatheads "run hot" is due to the LOM distributor not working properly. I really do not know what a good option is? SBC vacuum mechanical distributor machined to fit a flathead.... This seems like a great option but the machining and fit is one thing, it takes setting the ignition curve. If that's wrong is there any real advantage? It has to be set up right. That's above my pay grade. Vintage Mallory Flattop.... A good option but these are 70 plus years old. Trying to pry one off the wall at Cracker Barrel my get you in trouble. Also, there were many models and being so old they may be missing parts. Getting one of these working right is its own rabbit trail. Vintage Dual Points or new Petronix electronic conversion..... That's great and wonderful but it's still a vacuum only advance and the primary issue has not been addressed. Modern made electronic distributors.... 1.Questionable origin and quality. 2. Yuk!!! The distributor is bigger than the stock air cleaner. It's just goofy. 3. If you can find one with a reasonably sized cap, it's 12V only. I run 6V so I'm out of luck. These are not compatible with 6V and I'm not doing a 12 v conversion. New or recently Mallory red top dual point distributors... These go in and out of production. Quality may be an issue. 6V compatible Expensive but these days but what's not? Oh...... the stock LOM on the car right now is not expensive. So, what are the Huron to do? (LOTM reference, not LOM reference) A working stock 8BA distributor is a great unit. How to hop up an 8BA with the stock distributor...... Tune it up and do the checks to make sure it's functioning throughout the rpm range. Good headers and dual pipes, you will see a gain. 2" pipes are perfect I'll have to correct my statement above. Yes, I got my tape measure out. I was thinking 2.5 and bigger. Now the stock engine is breathing better and can take advantage of the working advance all through the rpm range. Since there is a limitation on carburetors, the next step is milling the heads or getting higher compression aftermarket heads. This is a gain. This is really all you can do with the stock LOM and the stock single 94. A Cam change may help but..... the best bang for the buck is headers and higher compression. Since it has a functioning advance, the car will do better overall than most of the Saturday car show specials with heads, dual carbs or triples without tacking the 8BA distributor. Carburetor options? the bigger Mercury 225 may be a gain. The early 4bbl Y block Tea Pot or "Towering Inferno" may be a gain The early T Bird Carter 4bbl may be a gain. ^^^ These are all LOM compatible 2 and 4bbls. Also.... You can play around with manifolds like Mercury manifolds and lifting the 94 higher on the stock intake. The OFFY 4bbl manifolds for flatheads use the old Carter 4bbl T Bird pattern. There are period adverti*****ts about putting the T Bird carburetors on the 8BA. Eventually I would like to run English made 97s but this will require a distributor change. The best bang for the buck right now? Headers and a single 94 on my 8BA. I'll be honest..... My little coupe with the 3.73 and 3 speed will freaking fly. It will go as fast as I have the nuts to push it. Going isn't the problem.
We are in agreement @F-ONE , I just get a little defensive when I hear about the shortcomings of these engines. I know for a fact (a lot of money where my mouth is) that they can be made to be dependable, fast, cool running and decently friendly at the pump. I'll put my flathead up against any normally aspirated SBC/SBF, it'll hold its own. You are dead on the money on the distributor. Not a lot of great "hot" options. I run a black cap on my MSD distributor, it doesn't look too bad in there. I wanted a mag but the look alike is not reliable I have found in failed attempts to run one. Recently on a 125 mile trip I got close to 13 MPG and some of that was stop and go city driving. I'll toss another 100 on it this Saturday. The way I drive, that is not half bad. You are also point-on when it comes to headers on a stock engine. Looks are 100% but HP is likely a zero gain, even though the old magazines claimed a 20% gain . I don't run a cross over pipe on anything currently. And I don't run a vacuum advance. I do run a MSD timing box to control detonation issues, provide a dash mounted retard/advance and rev limiter (mounted under the dash where no one has to look at it). My 97s from Clive and Uncle Max, they are great little carbs. I am not a restorer or traditionalist, I am after the maximum twist I get out of an engine for the shear exhilaration of acceleration. I'm a modern hot rodder that doesn't want to get embarr***ed at the light by a stock Camry. Back to the OP's quest, as long as he is building an exhaust system and spending the money, why not allow for future expansion in the HP department. Headers and 1.75" pipes and Smitty's may not boost his performance today, but it is an excellent foundation on which to build and looks cool to boot. Hell, he may strap a blower on that mill someday. At least I sure hope he does.
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