Newbie body man and body filler

I have a question regarding body filler.

Wen do I use products like mar gl*** vs regular body filler? I am working on an old truck cab and replaced the back panel by wlding the new one in. I ground the welds down and now I need to apply filler. I ***ume I will need regular filler for this, but what would I use fibergl*** filler?

Thank you.

 

work the metal and avoid filler

 

Products like Mar Gl*** are fibergalss reinforced and waterproof. I would get the welds finished, hammered, and ground down. See where you are at from there and than go with the Mar Gl***. Then a traditional filler or glaze putty if needed. Products like Mar Gl*** and Dura Gl*** get a bad rap and are also known as Bodyman as a can. Some guys like to fill holes and "make" panels with it.

 

I have ground the welds down as much as I can without grinding through. I used the flange tool to depress the metal but I don't quite like how much the panel sticks out. So what should I use here?

Here are some pics. Be easy on me as I am learning.

 

I can't see by the picture want you mean by the panel sticking out. Is the level of the repaired panel higher than the body? If you welded it in with a Mig welder the welds are pretty hard and its going to be difficult to work the panel with a dolly to adjust it. Does the panel oil can? (pop in/pop out?

 

i dont think u will get that perfectly flat the welds and the metal arnt going to move much if u try to hammer and dolly them it will make more work for u i use duragl*** its the same thing there is nothing wrong with duraglas i use it all the time u just have to use it right dont fill holes with it just spead it over the original panel and the welds on the new panel and sand it smooth it will fool people into seeing it as all one straight panel and it is but u know that it is a different underneath duragl*** is a think fibergl*** bondo and then u put bondo on top to fix lines and other things then there is icying which fills pinholes and is a good top coat for primer

 

When you use it remember be a "USER" not an "ABUSER"

 

Here is another pic.
The panel sticks out just a little. This is the second time I out this panel on. I dont want to risk removing it a thid time as I am close to the corners.


Is the bondo fibergl*** the same as duragl***, mar gl***?

 

Hey,

First off, unless you're repairing a Vette, or a b*** boat, fibregl*** reinforced fillers equal butchery! Gl*** & resin expand at a different rate than steel and one day will crack. What you're after, if your talking good or great body work ,is to strive for a minumal of ANY filler. Often times, you can save yourself much more time and money by trying to get the metal within 95% straight and only the 5% filler to finish off. Yeah, I'll conceed, over the last fourty years I haven't always hit this ideal, but when I've stooped to butchery, in the long run it hasn't saved me all that much more time than had I done it correctly to begin with!
I'm not a big fan of lap seams for panel replacement given their nasty habit of trapping water, and the extra time they involve to make. Sometimes they are a necessity, but I avoid them whenever possible. A **** seam/weld is much quicker and cleaner, and in the restoration business not permited. In the case of your lap flange pictured, you may wanna cut out your tack welds, spend some more time with the hammer and dolly, and than reweld. Always remember, the less filler the better, in collision,kustom or restoration work.

S****ey Devils C.C.
"Spending A Nation Into Generational Debt Is Not An Act Of Comp***ion!"

 

Get "The Key to Metal Bumping". Trust me, I'm new to this too. You can't have mine. It made me realize how wrong I've been doing things.

 

This is my first restoration so I am learning as I go. I hate body filler and have straightened most of the dents on the cab without using filler. The rear panel was so bad I had no choice but replacement. I just want to make it look nice. I;m afraid if I grind anymore, I will cut through the sheet metal.

 

Looks like you have a big wave or buckle on the left hand side. I'd try shrinking the high spot down a bit before working on the seam.

 

Im by far an expert but I thought the fibergl*** margl*** or whatever was waterproof so if what you put it on isnt 100% metal like incomplete welds or holes it wont pop off and rust behind it.The regular filler absorbs water.So if your seams arnt 100% maybe put a real thin coat to seal it?,then regular filler cause it sands MUCH easier.Wife had a 01 taurus we bought used,well after 3-4 years rear quarter started bubbling I could see filler lifting.Well turns out it was repaired and after I ground the whole panel down I found one tiny pinhole where the filler started poping off,It was from a stud when they pulled the dent out.The water got behind it and that was it.So I welded it up and packed it again but with rage gold filler.the experts here turned me on to it and I owe them because it saved me a ton of sanding,It sands so nice compared to the cheapo"bondo" brand.

 

Looks like you're using a piece of cold rolled steel for your replacement. I've had good luck with panels from a donor.
And **** welds take more time but are easier to work.

 

I did use cold steel. These cabs are hard to find in good condition fr a donor. I did have good cab, but I couldn;t cut it up because it was in great shape. I didn't get the good cab until long after I had the one I am working on. I have hours upon hours in this cab and would hate to start over with a different one. I think the guy who I sold the good cab to would sell it back, but that meansdoing everything over again.

In regards to the filler, I will be using rage gold. I bought a gallon last week but have not used it.

This cab is in great shape otherwise. However, I hate knowing that there is a flaw in it. Noone will know, but I will. Do I use the other cab?

 

Like pimpinpaint said, fibergl*** reinforced fillers are hack, so are flanged/lap welded patches. I hate to be the one to tell you but the moisture trapped under the flange will ruin all of your hard work in a few years time. You have two options, first is cut out your patch, make a new one that will **** up as close to perfect as you can get it, **** weld, hammer and dolly, and finish with a skim coat of regular filler. Second is leave your patch, put fibergl*** filler over your welds, and mud 'er up with regular filler over that. Now of couse option one is the best option,will produce the best results, and last forever, but option two might look halfway decent and last for a couple years. Where are you at in Wisconsin? If you are not too far from the MN border I might be able to help out.

 

I mentioned that this was the second time I did this. The first time I **** welded it and I didn't like how it turned out. Someone told me that I should have lap the metal, so I bought a flange tool and did it. When I started welding I noticed that the sheet metal wasn't tight against the base in some spots, but I was already too far along to start over.


I am near Green Bay. The bodywrok has been tough for me. I am a Master ASE Technician, but I am trying to learn the restoration business on my own. I am grateful for the people here who have helped me along.

 

You'll need to get the mill finish off, down to shiny metal or nothing will stick.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the bondo gl*** is for hacks. people use it for all kinds of crazy stuff. I used some on my Schwinn when I was 13 to mold the frame. that was the last time

as for flanging a panel... well a nice gap and a **** weld is the way to go, but for someone just getting started it is better than a lot of junk I've seen such as just an overlap and even it out with mud.

 

cut it out, and start over...

 

If you do decide to cut the patch out and reweld I would strongly suggest sheet metal **** clamps. Harbor Freight has'em really cheap like $5 for 8 of them. After using a diegrinder to cut out the panel the **** clamps utilize the small gap that the wheel put in the metal. Then weld up the gap and damn near perfect alignment.

I know it ****s to have to cut it back apart but after welding it in correctly you'll have 1/2 the time compared to straightening and mudding what you have.

 

When you cut it apart, fix the dents in the bead above where you welded it. **** weld the panel with either gas or tig, then you'll be able to work and finish the welds.

Did you put any shape into the panel that you made, or did you just cut out a flat piece and weld it in?

Sometimes it is easier to ask before you start for advice, instead of after.

 

The sheet metal was flat to begin with. The bow in the panel was put in by the natural bow of the back of the cab.

I am only afraid if I cut it out, the next one will not work either. there isn't much room left on the sides becuase the metal starts to curve am I not inclined to make the corners.

I checked the harbor freight website but could not find the sheet metal clamps. DO you know exactly what they are called?

 

The bead above the patch panel has naturnal dents from the spot welding during the manufacure of this cab. I have seen other cabs that look the same as this.

 

if you've made the panel that thin you need to startover, if your going to learn some thing try to learn to use lead, the only right way in my opinioni'm just learning how to lead myself and most of it ends up on the floor, but i do feel good about the repair when i do manage to finish.

 

There is nothing wrong with lead, just get the acid neutralized before you prime it; or you'll have problems later. I've seen some nice paint jobs wrecked because of acid problems in the lead; you can read this as a rust problem under the paint.

 

There's ALWAYS a lot of bad advice on bodywork threads, as well as good advice!

For a good guide, always listen to what pimpin paint has to say, as well as Highlander, overspray, John Kelly, etc.

Just to reiterate what the "good guys" said, **** weld your joints, hammer and dolly the seam, if you can (MIG welds don't like this, they tend to crack), and use the minimum amount of filler that you possibly can.
A welded seam will be SHRUNK! You shouldn't try to shrink it to get the waviness, or oilcanning out of it. You need to hammer on dolly it to stretch it to get your shape back. If MIG welding it, try to grind about 95% of the weld down and then hammer it, so you don't just bang on the weld, not sheet metal! TIG and gas welds will warp more, but are easier to correct.
As for fibergl*** filler, my opinion is that they are pretty much unnecessary, unless you are doing butcher work. I will explain.
If your welding isn't complete, or you leave a bunch of pinholes and such in it....waterproof filler is not going to fix it. Yes, regular filler does absorb moistire, so bad things will happen faster, BUT...if you get water intrusion, the METAL is going to rust out behind the filler! THAT is what pushes the filler out into those "bad repair rust bubbles" you see on some cars. Waterfproof filler is not going to prevent that from happening.
Even if your welding is good, seal up the backsides of your repair work with POR-15 or similar rust preventer, zinc rich primer, cold galvanize, undercoat, or something to cover the bare metal of the patch, and weld seam.
Good luck with learning bodywork...it ain't easy!

 

I s***ch welded the piece thats there now, but I was wondering I I need to cool the welds that I make right away to prevent warping. I understand that this shinks the metal. Is that why you use hammer on dolly to work the metal afterward???

 

What the hell?

 

No you do not want to cool the weld right away. You are correct in ***uming that will shrink the welded seem even further than it already is shrinking and cause more warping.

The hammer on dolly work is to stretch the weld seam that has shrunk during the welding process. If you are getting waves in the panel it is because the edges where you have welded have shrunk and pulled the panel out of alignment causing it to warp. You need to stretch those areas back to their original shape by hammering on dolly at the weld to stretch the metal and remove the warping.

Unfortunately you have decided to learn on probably the hardest type of panel you possibly could large low crown with a lot of welded seam. Be patient!