Hi All... I'm Carl, Got talked into doing a engine swap for a friend. He bought 2 old hemi's. One of them being a 392. He's wanting me to swap it into a 63 plymouth 4door. He bought the adapter for it to bolt up to the push ****on 727. And bought some shorty headers. Anyone done a swap that might give me some tips to help it along? I'm wondering what engine mounts will work for the swap? And it the shorty headers will work with the power steering? Any tips would be much appreciated? Thanks Carl
727builder ... I'm a big fan of '60s Plymouths (even 4-doors) and of "old" HEMIs ... but I've really got to question your friend's decision to put a 57-58 Chrysler engine in his '63 Mopar. Sorry that I'm no help with tips on this engine swap ... but I'm sure some of the usual suspects from the Early HEMI Tech group will be along any minute to offer their expert advice & opinions.
it'd be a good and pretty straight forward swap, but why put an engine in a car that is worth twice what the car is
I saw a local teen do that to a 61 or 62 plymouth back in 1968?? The only thing I recall was the motor did not fit too good. He had the engine raised way up in the front, so I am just guessing a sump interference problem
The best thing you can do for your friend is to show him the benefits of using a 400-440 instead of a 392. B-RB is an all bolt together operation. In the very old days there were plenty of earlyHemi swaps being done but rarely to anything before the 66 B body. I am not sure how much difference there is in the 63-64-65 vs 66 so hopefully one of the guys will offer some insite. On the B and E body cars the 392 fits ok, but there are some issues; Your shorty header will not work with power steering. With stock manifolds the sector adjusting screw determines the engine elevation. The manual box is smaller but still not sure about the headers. If you plan on using the 2x4 intake then there will be clearance issues with the hood at the front of the air cleaner. You can use a stock engine bracket with some mods. The 392 pan usually hits the k-frame, some notching is required, a rear sump pan does not help. .
I swapped a 354 into a 68 dart. I was against it the whole time but the guy wanted what he had in the dart. I had to do a custom rack and pinion setup due to the tf727 having the starter on the drivers side. It interfered with the steering box. Its alot of work. You could use a th350 to get the starter on the p***. side but who wants a chev ****** in a mopar. Then again, who wants a 392 hemi in an old 4 door? lol
I was thinking the same, the starter being about a foot behind the steering box and most mopars being built this way.
Hell, the guy has the motors, he has the car . . . he wants to use it. Who am I to say "don't do it". Dang near anything can be shoe-horned in - it comes down to the amount of work, fabrication skills and in the end . . . time/money. The right way to do it is to strip the entire front sheet metal from the car and start figuring out all the details . . . much like you do with any 392 swap into anything (unless the car came with one!). It takes time, multiple "mock-ups" and good fab/welding skills. I'd be working very hard to make sure the engine sits "down" in the ch***is as it should - or it looks stupid to me. I'd anticipate and plan for the following (at a minimum): 1) Custom motor mounts - block and frame. 2) Custom headers . . . or at least mods to something that you started with (even the shorty ones). 3) Customization to an oil pan, pickup, etc.. 4) Potentially customizations to the steering system . . . here I can't guess as I don't know Mopar ch***is setups. 5) Wiring, brackets to mount ****, etc.. 6) Don't know on the radiator - probably not an issue here. 7) Maybe a different intake manifold . . . depends on hood clearance. 8) Potentially some firewall mods - with the distributor in the back (again, don't know Mopars, just something to think about). 9) Hopefully no mods to the fender wells and all that jazz -- that can get rough! Hopefully he is a good friend, you have the time/skills and he has the money . Also, I hope he REALLY likes his moordoor . . . cause he's going to invest a lot in it -- even if you're working on the cheap!
He could sell the motors for way more than a well built 383-400-413-426-440 will cost and save hacking up the car as well.
I agree with you . . . other than the '426' number . . . at least if you were thinking a Hemi as well
Purchase one of those plastic mock-up engines with heads. That 392 weighs a ton and hard to move around and has a tendecy to smash fingers whereas the plastic one can be moved around and posistioned by hand. Sell it after you are done .
Well said! I have one and it makes the multiple mock-ups and test fits a whole lot nicer! I didn't realize what a challenge I had before me until I started the mock-ups. Once I SAW the clearance issues for things like exhaust, I needed to change some of my initial plans (thought I'd be able to make headers to "make the turn" from the 417 heads and keep them inside the frame -- WRONG!). Also, you can figure out where everything must go - the dimensions speak the truth that otherwise is over-shadowed by our eagerness to do what we think is a cool engine swap. Here are some photos of just a few of my problem areas . . . you'll be having the same fun
I agree! Been using my plastic engine 4 times now for mock ups, on just one car! This is the only way to go. Fabrication is not possible without one ,in my opinion. Good luck.
Also - do some searches for threads on Hemi motor mounts . . . there are a LOT of good examples and discussions on things to think about. One of the most important is to NOT think you're going to use a long bolt to pickup both sides of the ears and then crank it down like you normally would a 7/16 bolt -- that breaks the ears off of the block. Anyway, the job is probably very doable - just get a plastic mockup block or a stock block with no internals, bolt it to the trans plate and see what you're in for . . . believe me, it doesn't take long to find out!
Thanks for all the replys. I'm like most of you guys. Big block would easy conversion. He's a older guy in his late 60's or early 70's. And its what he wants. I will do my best to get it in for him. Im sure i will be back with more questions. Thanks Again!
Ch***is Engineering has a pair of Hemi mounts that fit perfect. I have a set on my hemi, a 354. They have horixontal lower plates, easy to use with early Ford 'biscuits'...Cheap, too!
It's in and done. He's already out driving it around. Had to make engine mounts. And cut the p*** side mount off of the k-member then reshape and relocate it. Had to convert the car from power steering to manual steering to get the manifolds to clear. No way to fit hedders unless they was hand built for it. Had to make a new trans mount. Shorten the driveshaft. The biggest pain was hooking back up the steering column. Had to buy a power steering to manual adapter and then cut and lengthen it to clear the manifold and shorten the steering column. Was fun.... Will post some pics later.
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