Salt Racer: Yes, Frith's car is the former Parham and Payne car. Those two guys are now good friends of mine, Payne is building a new blown car. The last I heard of the Frith car was it was in storage, less drivetrain, in Mn. Still had the lettering and the striped roof. That was about 5 years ago. I had talked to the guy that has it. Parham either looked at the car or pictures, decided if he wanted another it would be better to start with another wagon and build a clone. He's not building one, Payne is building a 2 dr hardtop. John
We went to Capitol Raceway once in about 1967 and they had some Pontiac wagons racing there and some other Pontiacs that caught my attention. We raced Joe Perzan....beat him twice as they made us rerun after the first one. There were 2 '60 Wagons and 1 '61 or '62 wagon that I can recall. Frank Cannaday was one and the 3rd might have been Maxey......All were fast.....I loved those big boats and the Tri-Power engines. McKeller solid cams in some were still legal....Running in the 13's as I recall......Most of those old Pontiacs launched real well for their size and weight.....
First of all, this thread is not about racing Jr.Stockers today... It's all about reliving and sharing something from each of our pasts... Whether we were spectators, racers or an X Tech Man. All information and memories should be considered equal and welcomed. If I take things too personal, so be it... But when the remarks and innuendo continue from the same poster (and I'm not the only one to see this continuation), then I will stand up for myself. This is an awesome thread and I will continue to look in and post on a lesser occasion. I hope that some new blood can come in and keep it all going with some stuff never seen before. That would be exciting!! Yes Mr. X "Some just don't get it." Larry
On those Rallye 350 Oldsmobiles; There were SUPPOSEDLY 12 "W31" Rallye 350 produced-- NONE have been documented as to date. However, as any GOOD car guy knows, just because there is no real proof that doesn't mean it didn't happen. I have seen ONE un-restored Rallye 350 with a factory aluminum intake manifold (1970 W31 ONLY) but the car had no documents to support its originality. Several have been restored with this item. The Rallye 350 package known as "W45" was available in three trim levels and a 4-speed was an option. The 350 cu.in. 310hp was the only engine choice shown in original ordering info. The 4-speed cam was a "little" different (not generally known) and NOT the same as the W31 cam, nor was the carb., intake, or valves. I have a fondness for these cars, but as you guys know, I'm a freak for Oldsmobiles!!! Until next time..... Dave. P.S. Back from the Cruise and I hope everbody had a GREAT Thanksgiving.
DW31S, Now I know where I saw one of these dressed-up Rallye 350's. In I/SA. (1970/1971). It looked nice.
Hi lew becker here.have not been on in a long time.have to learn some of the posting procedures,ect. Reviewing some of the postings today.noticed that john mackey,pat riccardi,ect. Was mentioned. I have some pix of these racers from vintage raceway park news-should i try to post these or have they been posted before??-also will post some material from these early rpn circa 1971-74.....cups or bucks,man!
And the "beat goes on"!! The argument about a Rallye with W-31! You're correct. No ONE has EVER produced a window sticker or POP that shows a W-31 in a Rallye!! Oldsmobile always claimed there was NONE produced!! Until someone produces documentation, they will NEVER be accepted by Olds purists. Even Helen Earley - (MRS. OLDSMOBILE) denied they were ever made, and finally laid the controversy to rest by just saying "one may have slipped through?" but also added that there would have been a POP or window sticker to which as i said before NONE has ever been produced. I certainly dont doubt that you saw one with an aluminum manifold, but the chances of it having been in the car from the factory are slim to none! Lots of dealers installed options on cars BEFORE they ever left the dealership. Some installed the components for customers who bought the car and had the installation made PRIOR to accepting car for delivery (which would mean to him that "IT CAME THAT WAY"!) Other dealers installed the parts themselves in order to make cars more "sellable" and appealing to a potential customer. I saw that happen many times, from anything from wheels to ram air packages. Dealers would put SS wheels on a car that came with dog-dish hubcaps to make it more sellable and the buyer would be ignorant of the fact when he bought the car. The buyer then would/could claim that the car "came from the factory that way"!! Thats how these myths are born. I'm sure Anderson Olds did plenty of the same thing for their customers since they seem to have been a "muscle car" oriented dealer the same as was the Chesrown brothers were at their dealerships. Sorry for the "rant" but you sorta tripped my trigger with this Rallye W-31 "rumor". Until you see it documented --- dont belive anything you saw or anything you heard!! There is also a guy in Canada that claims to have a Rallye W-31 Convertible too! The story is rather convincing BUT there is no documentation!! Another "myth" till proven! Anyone can read lots more about this "myth" on ClassicOldsmobile.com, RealOldsPower.com, or Olds Performance Club at Wildaboutcars.com if you wish! Theres lots of "debate" and info about the subject on these sites.
Went through a bunch of old magazine articles (general stuff), about GM wanting a few 'fancy' mid-level musclecars for 1970. Oldsmobile 'Rallye 350' 350/310 HP Pontiac Lemans Sport 400/330 HP Buick GS 350/315 HP Chevelle Malibu SS350 350/300 HP All targeted for the 'sport musclecar driver' (male or female), who desired an automatic transmission. They all fell into the 11.00-11.49 wt/hp bracket. I/SA. "Coincidence'
Tweed, "You are correct sir"----Anderson did plenty of conversions and added options to satisfy the customer or to make a "stale" unit a little more appealing. Although I definitely have seen some stuff that wasn't supposed to have been built, I have never ssen a W31 Rallye 350 with supporting documentation. It sounds to me that the convertible you mentioned was probably a "--" paint code car that was ordered in Sebring Yellow, had a Ram-Air hood, and then striped accordingly. I have seen several cars in this color that were not W45 (Rallye 350), cars such as f85s, 442s, Cutlass conv.s, etc. That color, while indeed rare, WAS available if the dealer knew what boxes to check on the ordering form. I know there was a Rallye 350 that was raced in the mid-west as a Stocker and then a Super Stocker. The car is still (was the last time I inquired) in the possession of the original owner and was raced from new. I tried to buy it a couple of times but just couldn't get together on price---still wears it's original paint, and is a 4-speed. Until next time..... Dave.
The Malibu in 1970 was NOT an SS with a 350/300hp. In 1970 The SS was a Chevelle and only a BB carrying "396 or 454" nomenclature, although a 400 (actually a 402) was available in the Malibu. In 1971 and 1972 a SB SS WAS available. 1969 was altogether different,too. It does get rather confusing.
DW31S, I think in 1970 it was called 'Malibu 350' And the Pontiac had a T-37, with a striping package. Thank you for the correction.
Not really tryin' to bust anybody's b#lls!!!! Wouldn't do it--just addin' my .02$ Weird as it sounds, that T-37 could have had bigger motors and a 4-speed, too. Later SS Malibus could've had a 307-- really weird. And that L74 350/310hp Olds was pretty much standard in 1970--unless you wanted a CREDIT and got a 2bbl! Until next time.... Dave.
DWS31S, No offense taken, Just looking at the 1970 cars for I/SA in 1970, to see what GM was trying to do. Maybe economy musclecars. Malibu 350 350/300 HP Oldsmobile 'Rallye 350' 350/310 HP Pontiac Lemans Sport 400/330 HP (w/G-37 stripe kit)
Dave -- The 'Hybrids" youre talking about were a "dead giveaway" without the ground strap for the plastic bumper that ONLY came on the Rallye factory cars!!! LOL. Good luck on search for one with paperworK. PLEASE let me know when you find it!!! P.S. that so called W-31 convert did/does indeed have the plactic bumper and ground strap too!! UGH!!
What was the quicker 'GM' car, 1970 Chevrolet 'Malibu 350' (350/300 HP) 1970 Oldsmobile 'Rallye 350' (350/310 HP) 1970 Pontiac 'Lemans Sport' (400/330 HP) 1970 Buick 'GS 350' (350/315 HP)
Hey Tweed, I'll say this and I'll swear to it--- G.M. (and probably other manufacturers) assembled cars that were not supposed to be available to the general public and they assembled cars that were design studies that kinda 'slipped out the back door'. I know of a couple and have had heated conversations as to the cars really existing. If you (not you personally because you been around long enough to know) think about it rationally, there WOULD NOT be supporting docs on a design study or a weirdo car that WAS NOT to built in the first place. I know we're steering away from Jr. Stock a little here, but I think these cars deserve some attention. Rare doesn't always mean desirable, however many times it does. What if a high-level Olds or G.M. Exec. wanted a "special" conv.? Strings could be pulled back then, now it is not so easy--too much red tape. How long did it take for Pete Estes' '68 Z28 Conv. (1 of 1---only one produced) to surface? Decades? Nobody knew or thought that car was built--- see what I'm gettin' at? Newcomers to the hobby are skeptical and with good reason; oldtimers understand. Enough for now.....Dave.
That's a GOOD question! Colesy might (probably) has some magazine comparisons of the day. As far as N.H.R.A. stats he probably has them, too. I know my '69 W31 was rated at 350/325hp and fell into F/S and G/S at that time.
It's taken me an entire week to read all of the posts. Great job to all and I think this is the best thread ever. I'm a dirt circle track racer but having TK power for 15 years I developed a nice taste for drag racing who wouldn't. I used to love to hear the stories from Ralph while checking in on our motor during the off season. What a place over on route 22 man oh man. Still dealing with his son Mike and still getting to as many races as I can. Keep it up and I'm going to take my fathers 57 Chevy Bel-Air and make it into a tribute car instead of the current show car it is now..
This is Bob Harrop's '61 S/S Pontiac. It is still around and showed up at a muscle car auction where it sold for $90,000.
Jack THOMAS,do you know joe waiter,broadway garage,nanticoke,pa.? He was a student at kings during the time frame you posted re the kc cc. Also,my wife was in the first coed class at kings during this time as a nursing student. Lots of good racers in that wyoming valley area!!
These photos are from raceway news-raceway park e-town,nj-vol.2-no.15(should be 1971): Ron sirianni v. Mackey&mayerson jerry chopping down the chanukkah tree and winning stock over the f/sa plym. Of callahan&sulc...driven by frank iaconio. Jr.stock winner mike mazepa,m/s 66 chevyii over n/s chevelle of ronnie sirianni. Does anyone know the corvette jerry is running?it appears to have a t/k logo on the front fender area?? I have to take a break now....tooo much....bwahhahahah
I just had to check; 70' Malibu 350 350/300 HP wt.3372,,,, 11.24 wt/hp 70' Olds 'Rallye 350' 350/310 HP wt.3465,,, 11.18 wt/hp 70' Lemans Sport 400/330 HP wt.3637,,, 11.02 wt/hp 70' Buick GS350 350/315 HP wt.3468,,, 11.01 wt/hp 1970/1971 = I/SA Anyone know what the record was back then?
Thanks so much for sharing the pictures and ads from the Raceway News paper. They bring back so many memories.....it's like it was yesterday! I remember every car and ad and copy of that track paper. It was my favorite reading material. I raced there from 1969 through 1979 and worked there from 1976 through 1978. After being away from that track for 31 years, I still consider it to be my home track. I've been living in Florida all that time, and am moving to North Carolina now.
The Jalopy Journal
