Man,what a bummer for you guys.I definitely feel your pain. Ardmore is going to open next month with a new owner and a new return road and at least 1 nostalgia gig. I'm sure Rick Carrol will be exercising Johnnies common sense approach to racing for the most part. I can almost guarantee you'll be welcome there,although I realize it's a long tow for most of you guys. That's funny Joe!
Unfortunately, "The Peoples Republic of California" has no outlaw tracks, (and they wonder why they have problems with street racing). Won't stop those "hard core" among us, but it's really gonna add to the costs for us to be able to run our cars. I must admit that it makes the idea of a body, rear suspension and off center steering have some merit. What is the requirement for roll bars in a 10 or 12 second coupe or roadster?
Joe, you will not need a roll bar on 170mph bike! I ran a comp eliminator bike at 165mph and 8:50 et and all I was required to have were full leather suit, gloves and an up to date helmet. If you run on a test and tune night with the HA/GR's, I have never had a problem. So it looks like I run test/tune nights and the HAMB drags with mine. Hopefully they will let us run at Indy this year, as I might be able to make that one also. Robert
This isn't a HA/GR thing but I think it fits. I'm gathering goodies to build a Dragmaster Dart styled rail. The issue of how to build the chassis haunts me. The local outlaw track is now an NHRA deal. The question is do I build the chassis to meet NHRA specs or build it the way they used to (with thicker steel of course) and add a few things for safety that won't mess up the look. That's the way I'm leaning today but I keep waffleing. I guess I should follow your lead and build her traditional.
Joe, Point well made.......maybe we should show up in leathers. I'm sure there is some logic to nhra's thinking. Nah, logic doesn't enter into this picture. You know what I'm going to do....write a letter to nhra (small letters) and ask for a logical explanation based on Joe's reasoning. It won't do a damn thing except make me feel better, but it will be interesting to see what they have to say, if they even answer. I'm still pissed...they could have at least let us run the 1/8th mile. Ron
It's hard to get through nhra's Big 3: Lawyers, Insurance Carriers and $$$$. They have a successful business right now, why take any chances on supporting real drag racing by home builders?
I can't say I'm surprised. NHRA-[Never Have Rational Answers] has done everything it can do to kick the hobbiest out of the sport. Today's drag racing is boring to me. Personaly I think they would like to dump all the classes that don't generate TV coverage. Its never interested me since they killed off the gassers, fuel altereds, and the modified production classes. The gas rails were the first flash of interest for me in several decades. Nope, we don't want anything that doesn't cost a hundred grand or more to build, and eliminates even the possibilty of someone getting a splinter. So lets see if I understand this, we have towns with cruise-ins that have huge burnouts exhibitions, in public, with no barriers that go bad and injure people or worse, but we are so dangerous at 12 seconds and 100 MPH that we can't run on a real track with full concrete walls. Figures. Time to print up the NHRA sucks stickers.
I think Ryan could be the next Wally Parks, he has people in numbers start an grass root Association (non profit naturally, but with a comfortable salary) all over again. What do ya think?
I recently joined HAMB and the HA/GR program sparked my interest. I read your rules and after reading this post, I say, long live the HNRA (Hamb Nostalgic Racing Association). I think safe cars can be built as long as the speed stays porportional to the chassis requirements. (common sense) I want to attend a race to see if my design is correct for the class. Thanks for the research and effort with the NHRA. Sam PS: I always liked the AHRA.
dynosam, Welcome to the group. I think you'll find this group not only likes the 50's style dragsters, but has the same spirit that prevailed back then. We don't always agree, but we always try to keep moving the HA/GR's forward. By the way, I do all the dyno testing/tuning at a machine shop here in Raytown, Missouri. (suburb of Kansas City). Do you dyno also? Ron
guys... here's the thing... everyone is trying to build non-slingshot dragsters... the bug was not. the bug had FULL suspension front and rear. read the NHRA rule book. everything CHANGES with suspension. the combination of solid mount rear axle and center steer makes it either a dragster or altered depending on driver position. period. suspension changes EVERYTHING! build to the rules. it will make life much easier. like i've said before.... if i ever get mine done, it will be full suspension front and rear and registered on the street as a single seat modified. they CAN'T stop you from running and the rules change. the Garlits era is over. you cannot go to war wit hthe NHRA. if you wanna run in california, build to the rules not to some chassis paradigm that someone NOT from california came up with.
NHRA and there rules were the reason I sold my old front engined rail. I had a nice Anson fire suit but couldn't use it--becouse of the rules. When I talked to the NHRA tec guy he said there wasn't any thing wrong with the old Anson suit--except Anson was no longer around--so NHRA ruled you couldn't use them. It was explained as Deep pocket! I built my car to run in the high 8's and then when NHRA ruled that the chassis had to be sonic checked that was ok as it was made with thick wall tube. But then the guys doing the sonic check wanted the chassis stripped to bare metal. Well that ment at least 500 bucks to soda blast the car and then hale it to the sonic check and hope it doesn't rain (open trailer). So I sold the car instead of slowing it down to run 10's. Also with out a floor over the tranmission(built C-4) I would have also had to buy the same type of fire suit that Funny Car drivers wear--for a front engined 10 sec. bracket rail! Back then (12years ago) that suit was over $800.00!! So I say tell NHRA to stick it were the sun do not shine!! IHRA and out low tracks for me!!
Alteredpilot, I think you are right. The first three HAMB rails were built without a rule book. If you need to run at an NHRA track, you'ed better build a modified. The orange Ausise rail comes to mind. It can have a very minimal body. Maybe even a bolt-in cage. A multi-purpose race car could be very cool. I woke up this morning dreaming about my vintage dirt circle '27 T modified project. Dreaming and gathering a few parts is about all I have done on that one. Now if I were able to race it on dirt and the drags. . . Maybe I could buzz around town now and then. . . I think in the early days a guy woud drive is roadster to the track, strip it down and drag it out. We could do the same. I know that if you really want to win races then build a full race car, no comprimises. On the other hand, if the other if the other cars in the local field also have these same comprimises, then the field is level.
Please help the ignorant (me). Altered Pilot, what is a Modified??? Can't seem to find it in my 2008 NHRA rulebook.
Do you know what a "T Bucket" looks like? The term "modified" comes from circle track racing lingo. If the wheelbase has been changed, the trunk cut off, top chopped, engine setback, etc, the car has been "modified", therefore it couldn't run in the "stock" class.
You won't find the term "modified" used to describe a class in the NHRA rulebook. It's just a hot rodder term used to describe something like this photo. His point was that you should use suspension and not put the steering wheel in the center. It should resemble a little roadster. Some call this a "Lakes Modified" because similar styles of stripped down jalopies were raced on the dry lakes and salt flats, in the early days.
karl orr's lakes modified. its basically the bug with a body. add a set of headlights and you've got a street legal car. t-buckets and dune buggies can run down the strip. even center steer or 'off center steer' (think about that for a minute) versions.
I'm with you on this Mitch. Already have the offset planned on the seating and steering, just need to figure out the rear suspension design I want to go with. They don't really say just how much travel constitutes "suspension" do they? Next question I'm pondering.......Do we need a door and must the bodywork be "production based", or can it be one off? Also do we need to have the vehicle street registered? A lot of "dune buggies" aren't.
Christman's famous drag rail ran on the dry lakes in the 1930's, before it was stretched and before drag racing was invented. I think maybe the body was used on a dirt circle modified before that.
I know what a modified is. I have a 27 T modified, an Anglia, a 406 powered Crosley wagon and a few other cars. I am referring to the 2008 NHRA rule book where there is no mention of a modified class for anything resembling a T bucket. I have drag raced beginning in 1957, helped on a C/Gas car that won the Nats in the mid 60's. Ran a 33 Willys and a Thames for brief periods of time in the mid to late 60's. What I'm driving at is there is no reference to "modifieds" as a drag race entity in the NHRA rule book. So, lets say I want to run my '27 Modified roadster at a NHRA track. What would be required? Accoring to my reading of the rule book they would call it an Altered. That would mean I need to meet all the requirements, including an Altered cage, which if you look at the rule book is for center steer frames and not for a 2 seat street driven roadster. The local NHRA track (Brainerd) wouldn't let me run the Fiat, which has a 12 point cage, and all the requirements set forth in the rule book. I got to run 1/8 mile once but they said don't bring it back for a regular program because it is an Altered but not with an Altered center steer chassis and roll cage. By the way it is street legal and fully suspended.
The Jalopy Journal
