The PPE Post got me thinking about this again. A year or so ago I went to the Run What You Brung here in Tucson to ask the Tech Inspectors if I could run one of my Road Race cars. The frame is thinwall 1/2 and 3/4 square tubing, no top, no fenders, less than 90" wheelbase, single hoop behind the driver. Small 4 Cylinder, A really good one will do 12s, mine might break into the 14s. Before the told me " No way, no how ", the only thing they seemed to want to know was, if the thing was fenderless. Why was that important? Is there a loophole that could get me in with out me having to cut up and modify my car? Why is my car dangerous on a Dragstrip and not on a Road Track?
Probably because if it's fenderless it becomes an altered or dragster and they assume it must pass tech as such. NHRA doesn't seem to want to recognize that there are slow cars that don't look like slow cars. Their rules are made for the fastest cars to which the rules might apply. I can't actually blame them, but it is inconvenient for the nostalgia racer.
I've been a NHRA tech inspector and racer for too long, I can see both sides of he fence. If the whellbase is less then 90" your screwed, it's cut and dried. The only vehicles that can compete with a wheelbase less then 90" is a bone stocker with the original engine. It's tough to say much else without seeing the car. It's about different sanctioning bodies having different rules and insurance coverage. What would your tech guys say if a guy with an old altered showed up and wanted to go road racing?
I drag race my fenderless Model A coupe all the time, I'm thinking the less than 90" wb might have something to do with it...Get a rule book,thats the best place to start.
Rocket 88, I can see what you are talking about, but any vehicle with a steering wheel can drive in a straight line. As far as insurance, every track I've ever even spectated at had some kind of waiver to sign. I know that these would never stand up in court, but come on. Between the waiver, the slow E.T., the fact that this is obviously a road course car, it is plain to see that he is just out to have a little fun and get an idea of how fast his car is for ease of comparison to other cars. After seeing this car, if you manage to flip it over doing anything, you deserve the Darwin award. If I owned a track, "street" nights would be "race at your own risk" night for anything that runs slower than 13.99.
Deyomatic, I hear what your saying. I'd like to take a lot of the rules in the book and chuck em' and use the common sense approach. Unfortunately there are too many Darwin Award nominees out there that we have to protect from themselves. Litigation and law suits are regretfully, part of drag racing today.
NHRA.......No Hot Rods Allowed. The roots of the sport from the 1950s and 60s would not pass tech today. I was a NHRA tech in the 60-70s. It's all about the money today. They want you to buy from the sponsers...new seatbelt every 2 years, new scattershield every 2 years, new this and that every 2 years...........! I'm for a safe car but.........
I know what yer sayin pigiron, I have a pair of simpson seat belts brand new in the box from 91 and there is nothing wrong with them except there date. I've been told, to send them back to simpson and have them recertified, it would cost about the same as new ones. Funny thing is they won't let me run the big outdated beefy simpsons, but I pass tech every time with cheap ass Pep boys seat belts, go figure...
What is the wheelbase on a Junior Dragster? If all you want to do is Bracket Racing,just show up with your approved helmet. Pretend you have a Mustang. If you start talking to Drag Racers about Mallocks,Super Sevens,De Dion,spaceframe, they have no idea what your talking about. So the easy answer is No.
Rocket, an Altered showing up at a Road Race event... I can totally picture that, that would really screw with the Tech guys Uncl, you are probbably right. Maybe I'll just show up and play dumb. I've got the 2000 rulebook, and if I remember right, it says something about Dune Buggy type cars. As much as an insult that is, if it will get me in , I'll use it... The reason I would like to do this is. I own the car, it would be a fun thing to do every once in a while on a friday night, and it would be a safe place to dial in my Carbs etc. And dont get me wrong, the Road track organisers are as over protective of their drivers as the Drag Race people. They are talking about HANS devices for Historic Racing now, and they probably wont stop untill they have sanitised the sport out of existence. Racing does not have to be as safe as playing a video game, and if I would have picked up a scanky chick in a bar for every time I slid that car next to or around a ditch, curb,tree, guardrail, wall, fence or cattleguard. I'd probably be dying of a nasty disease by now...
We got away with alot of Shit running SCCA 2 Liter Can Am,back in the mid '80s. Only ever came across one Tech guy that really knew his stuff. He worked for the FAA,figuring out why planes crashed. He told us what we should change and why,and then let us pass.It never got changed. No one ever noticed the seat belts were frayed,because they were wrapped in tape. Never figured out the fire extinguisher didn't work,becuase the 9 volt battery was dead. I hope things have improved.
Im not a thrill seaker with a deathwish, but these organisations rather send people away than have them join, for the remote possibillity that something bad might happen. All the people they send away will find something else to do, or they will get their kicks on the streets. I am all for senseble safety rules, but when the threshold to start gets to high, I dont see how it could not hurt the sport.
Has anyone ever put a tape on the wheel base to measure it? I built a nostalgia T Altered in the 80's and it was 92" wb. No one ever cared. It was an original box type tubing chassis from 1953, it used to be in a circle track car. Point is, just show up on Friday night and see what they say. If it is your street car, what can they say? It's no different than a convertible mustang with the top up.
I think thats exactly what I'll do, Roothawg. And I'll put some fenders and lights on it too. BTW, When is a production car a production car? Does that go by minimum numbers or something else?
Metalshapes The rule book states 90" min WB as noted above. A production car is a production car when not modified. Remember all of the rules boil down to how fast your car is. The faster your car is the more rules there are. Like seatbelts for instance. You dont need 3" 5 way belts unless you run 11.99 or quicker.I dont like the 2 year shit and Im sure that is a political sponser thing - cause We all know you could still tow a 5 ton truck with 10 year old 3" seatbelts.When your car is 15.00 or slower you dont need much at all.But to defend the rules, The faster you go the More saftey you need.This is not only to protect you but the guy you are racing. My racecar will be a solid 9 sec car this next year.It has run mid 10s for the past 6 yrs. I surley wouldnt want some cheap Jack Ass to suddenly cross the centerline hit Me total My car cause He was too Fuckin cheap to buy good race axles. But then if I was cheap too and didnt have a roll cage when He hit Me at 135 MPH I wouldnt have to worry either. The threshhold isnt to high at all for the slower cars.So just get a rule book or find out before you go what you need and FOR SURE You will have a ball and you WILL return, like the many thousands do across the country each week.----Feder
Thanks Feeder, like I said, I got the 2000 'book. Where I went wrong is, after reading it I went to the Tech guys hoping they would explain the parts of it that were not clear to me. I also hoped that the Run What You Brung might be more relaxed rule wise, aspecally since in Drag Racing terms, my car is slow. Oh well... In their defence, they have not seen the car, and I might still show up one day just to see what will happen. If nothing else I would like to find out if Drag Racing is the thing for me, before spending money and time on building a car for it. I only tried Drag Racing twice. First time in a Abarth 1000 TC ( high 16 in the rain ), second time in a Ford Falcon Sprint V8 ( about a second faster, no 1st gear ) At those speeds it is not very exiting...
We gasser guys run into this problem constantly at least here , no 60's race car can pass tech, Cert.welding? Ur kidding right? hell that weld is 30 years old! mild steel roll bars and 66 impala seat belts ARGH ! we run at an outlaw track or will be,no sanctions or BS rules to deal with, drive it in an run it, course, most will never see 12's, No Hot Rods allowed for sure , went up to BIR and got slammed when I asked if i could run my 57 -NO WAY,not even an exibition run! out of date everything ,I spent a lot getting the right period pcs,(something to think about)-including that rare Ansen scatter sheild, won't pass tech!
Very true. The rules are there for when things don't go according to plan, which does tend to happen occasionally. That's why insurance is so expensive. "Hope for the best, but plan for the worst" Paul
Mike L, that really sucks! At least I've got another place I can go with my car. I wont even try to get the Roadster on the track, it doesn't even have seatbelts... ( But I'm sure it would be faster over the quarter than the Mallock ) Maybe this is the little push I need to restore the other Clubmans Racer I've got... ( At only 3" to short it is a lot closer to 90" than the Mallock. ) I guess there is no magic loophole and I'll be ready to get send away. ( which is fair, Its their stomping ground not mine... ) Thanks for your help guys...
I talked to the owner/promoter of a local 1/8 mi track about a upper midwest gasser type race or reunion and he seemed interested , It has no santioning body so its a definate possibility,keep ya all posted, pre 69-70 rules! NO electronics/controllers or ignitions including HEI! HEADS UP + no BRAKES at end of track. never pursued it beyond our first talk , but he was definately interested.
[ QUOTE ] I only tried Drag Racing twice. First time in a Abarth 1000 TC ( high 16 in the rain ), second time in a Ford Falcon Sprint V8 ( about a second faster, no 1st gear ) At those speeds it is not very exiting... [/ QUOTE ] I had a 59 Abarth Zagato (750) Double Bubble Fiat and I broke the camshaft the first time out!!! Fiat = "Fix It Again Tony"...!
Sounds about par...! Loved the way the car looked..., but I sold it to a guy in New Jersey who had a stock pile of parts! I guess that is what you need to run the car for a season...!!! Mark
Never have understood why rational hot rodders, especially racers, have such a tough time accepting rules and regs intended to keep them alive and prevent them from hurting fellow racers and spectators. The chassis tech regs get a little knotty with regard to real and perceived performance, and it would seem reasonable that a safe chassis in road racing would be a safe chassis in drag racing. Maybe you just have to do a good job of selling it, Metalshapes. The greater puzzle for me is understanding why someone would bitch about having to replace or re-cert a safety harness every couple of years. Is seventy-five to a hundred bucks a year more than you're worth?! As a former racer/racer-on-hold, I'm very greatful for the tough safety rules of organizations such as the NHRA. It's reassuring to know that the person I'm lined up next to has met all the safe-equipment standards that I have to ensure a safe contest. You may very well be the smartest constructor of safe race cars on the planet, and here you're telling me that you want to race without meeting the safety regs of the sancioning organization, asking that I trust you because you know better what is really required. I see a few flaws in this line of reasoning, and thay all have to do with your credentials. Enough, let's cut to the chase; you aren't equipped to make the safety judgement for yourself, much less others in a form of racing you view as simplistic and no big deal. Too often hobbyist road racers have dismissed drag racing as high-school simple -- a good place to go cherry picking. Yeah, right, and good luck! If you think your road-course car is a drag-racing winner, do the required upgrades and actually contest it. Don't beg for special considerations and favors: Do the hard work and earn the right to race!
av8, I am not going to try and do a good job at selling anything, My car is welcome or it is not. I just had the feeling that the tech guys at my local track were not telling me every thing... I am trying to answer your arguments in the order you posted them, but I dont understand the 5th paragraph. When did I say drag Racing is no big deal? It is a competitive sport where some very gifted people do their thing. Unless you got that from the remark I made about my own slow 16 and 15 Sec. times... In that case you are right, that was no big deal. Sounds like some Road Racers have pissed you off in the past, which is understandeble, some of them are very good at it. I got the same from some of these gentlemen when I did the Dutch version of Solo2. Funny you bring up High-school, because the friday night Run what you brung/Test and Tune is where the High School kids play with their dayly drivers, and that seemed a good place to join with out being in the way. If I thought my Historic Road race Car was going to be a Drag Race winner, I would not mind chainging it somuch. Since it wont be I see no sence in cutting it up.
I also agree that rules and safety equip. are a big part of what is nessesary, tho I do take exception that any harness,trans blanket or saftey sheild needs to be replaced every two years, as needless spending (unless of course they are involved in a accident,blow up or fluid stress, and racing anything anywhere w/o belts of some kind is REALLY stupid,but When I refer to nostalgia ,I'm not talking blown fuel computer cars ,I'm talking our kinds of home built or restored 50's or 60's tech race cars that would scare themselves off the track at faster than 12.99 (most anyway,look at some of the old records when a 55 chevy was HOT at 14,s and even 15's),home built run fer fun stuff, anything faster NEEDS all the safety it can get ,ever get crossed at 160 MPH? NOT fun, til its over at least.You'll thank them belts fer bein there.ANY belts old or new. I ounce saw a 71` Duster run with the front tires like this / \ only WAY more on one side then the other and it passed tech! AND ran like greased snot at 11.06 with a bone stock body and interior! would I have run that car ?,hell no! but ya should have seen the grin on this guys face,never saw it again either, IF I ran (or wanted too )a true go for broke race car I would have all of those up to date safety parts ,broke,(as if i'm not now) but have em. but needless for a street driven hobby car that would see a track maybe twice a year and never brake 13.0 gimme a good set of belts race or factory and a helmet and I'll race.no record setting, but havin a ball.
another side of the coin that has come up of late is the fact that due in no small part to those saftey costs and other costs involved (AND a couple of stupid movies), I think we are going to see even more resurgence of street racing, some will get killed or jailed out of it, a few will make the transition to legit racing and most will simply grow up and move else where with young families ,no different really than our old days(remember all the 55's after Two Lane Black Top? much the same deal, cheap fast used cars that they are tweaking into rockets for the street,The very thing NHRA was founded on and to stop it (street racing) was its big selling point,just different names and forein builders is all,Hate em? yup, but I ain't 16 to 25 yo any more either.If I was I'd be into em ,most likely. As far as rods at road race events - Anyone remember that model A (or was it a T ?) rod that road raced w sports car fenders? ah hell chalk it up to sittin here unable to sleep again.ramblin.
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