Hot Rods No more "bro deals"?

I can identify with what you guys are saying. When I was in younger and in a car club once a few guys felt entitled to parts they knew I had or wanted things for nothing. They were guys who I didn't really know that well. Always would find out they made a buck and never used the parts. The really cool part is my closest friends and I trade stuff and it works out great. There is a big difference between BRO's and real friends. The best part is my friends are the real deal kind of guys and building stuff is a blast when we help each other and have a few beers and joke around. It just takes a while to hook up w/ the right people. Joe www.powerandnoise.com

 

Sell?...never thought of that.
I just keep everything, my family will sell it when I die and since none of them know what its worth there will be some bro deals then...
Unless they sell them on E-rape

 

Being in business for 30+ years as a striper, I've given my share of "bro deals". "Give me a deal and I'll get you some business." Or "give me a deal and I'll let you put your name on my car." No matter what I charge the signature goes on. That was the mantra in the early years when I did not know any better. Like I told many car dealers who always want huge discounts for striping cars and then they add $200 or more to the price I charge, "No big discounts, it takes just as much effort to do 5 as it does 1 cars0, so you pay the same price no matter how many I do." And that's why I do not stripe for dealers.

No matter what you sell, there will always be the person who screws you. A few years ago I did two rods at a show for a "freind." After I was done he handed me $100 bucks. DAMN! My min price per car that day was $150 and he gives me a "c" note. But I guess he figured that what I do isn't really that valuable. I even had a client, who is worth about $100M, pay me $50 bucks to do a complete stripe job on his new Tundra. That's my fault because when he asked how much, I said, "whatever". Never did another for him since.

We have a wonderful free enterprise system that feeds most of us well and of course when buying and selling, you stay in business by buying low, selling high. That's how we keep the economy going, but that process can be abused especially in our little fraternity.

But...

We do not want to get like the Government and try to take over the free enterprise system and control the way it works. Although you've been had, the Hot Rod business isn't about socialism.

But I would definitely treat the "BRO" who owes you money as if you were in a socialist country...off with his fingers!

Mikey
www.mikeyspinstriping.com

 

It goes both ways.
How about those 'bros' who are desperately trying to do you a favor, only to earn an entitlement to ask for whatever return-favor they like in the future, without having to be respectful any longer?

I can't count the times, I had to strongly refuse so called 'favors' or 'help' from manipulative losers, who just want to gain access to you and what you are doing, which apparently impresses them way too much.

Kind of reminds me, when you run a business and a customer acts however he pleases, because he puts a few $$ on the table, like he is doing you a favor.


One of the very first lessons about life, to learn as a little kid, is to never do anybody a favor, unless you don't expect anything in return.
And likewise to never accept a favor, unless you are willing to give back and maybe more than you received in the first place.

And one more thought - as soon as money is involved, you can forget about any rules.
In the end, it's just about the mentality of who you are dealing with and nothing else matters.

 

I hate to see this happening, it's one thing if you buy something at a stated price from ebay or something and then make a profit, but quite another to take advantage of a friend. There are still people who have faith in others though, look at the "pay it forward thread" , i was even able to get a free trunk handle for my retired auto collision teachers '40 ford project, he's busted his ass on that car for years, and lots of students got a chance to work on a steel 40 due to it, It's good people like that who get screwed over when people take advantage of a break on the price.

 

It's like they told us in trade school, you aren't goin to get a doctor or a lawyer to charge you a bro rate why the hell should you charge anything less than standard for your skill and experience.

Working field service my customers always ask "I have a <car, piece of equipment , etc.> would you look at it for me. My ansewer is my job allows me to work on lease vehicles from my company as far as side work if this job didn't pay enough to where I needed side jobs I wouldn't be here.

 

Don't give them don't take them. Been the same since Ben Franklin, (never a borrower or lender be...same concept) why would it change now?

IF you're selling right they'll buy it and be happy. IF you're not they'll walk away or make an offer. EIther way they know where you're coming from. Everything is negotiable and it's olny worth what a guy is willing to pay. ANd if they're parts flippers, how do you know what they are getting for it? SO they advertise high, OK, but then they probably dont' sell for that anyway.

And if any of you flippers out there want to clean out a bunch of Pontiac engines in my garage....C'mon over...I'll give you a Deal!!!! (Have I got a used motor for YOU!!!)

 

Someone can say anything they want, but I will not be swayed. The only thing they accomplish, is now I really know them. A true friend ("bro"), won't expect a special price, because they value your friendship enough to pay you what it is actually worth.

 

I guess my experience has been a little better. I've given some parts away over the years because I'd rather see the part on a buddy's car than to see it hanging in my shop gathering dust when I know I'm not going to use it. The engine in Henrietta the '38 Ford pickup was given to me by a long time friend who is like a brother to me (my kids were half grown before they realized we weren't kin to Uncle Gary and Aunt Wanda). I just had a guy pull in behind me when I stopped at a local store in my truck to tell me a) that he liked my truck, and b)that he had a tailgate just like the one on my truck that I could have, just come and get it. I will go get it tomorrow. He said it had the V8 logo below the Ford script, I told him it was a '38-'40 gate and I'd be glad to have it for a spare in case I need it. I've had a good many parts given to me for Henrietta the '38 Ford pickup and Ozelle the '55 Ford. I've never tried to take advantage of anybody on the old stuff, and I've often been on the receiving end of the generosity of others.

 

^^^ couldent havve said it better ^^^^

 

AMEN!!!

Merry Christmas......

 

When I help somebody it don't hinge on whether they need my help or if it's simply an act of friendship. It's exactly the same as loaning money to a friend or relative or betting on one roll of the dice. Any retun of favor is welcome, of course, but the absense of reciprocation shouldn't break up family or friends.
If a favor I did makes it possible for that person to turn profit, whether it's socially or financially, sometime in the future, good for him. It wouldn't be realistic, also it would be dounright selfish for me to expect anything in return. No skin off my ass what he does with it. I have more respect for myself, and my friends, than that.

 

The donor car that I bought for my latest project came from a friend. He set the price, a very fair price IMO for what I got. I did not attempt to bargain him down, just paid the tab.

The last two project cars I bought, (last one was in '86), the seller set the price I paid. They were both pretty rough, but they were what I wanted.


Last one that I almost bought, the seller and I spoke for several hours on the phone. He sent photos also, and a followup call. He had personal reasons for selling it the way he was, to not be rodded. I agreed because I REALLY wanted a 40's Buick, since I was a teenager. I had a '48 project car out west in the 80's, but gave it up when we moved back to Michigan.

Anyway, he said 3k for a running driving car that needed paint. When I told him where I would be traveling from, he said that he had a new set of tires that he would include, and mount and balance if I wanted the car. While I waited.

Deal was set, I was to go down to southern Ohio on the weekend. Three days before the trip, and one day after I bought my new pickup (first new vehicle I had had since '77) my wife lost her job. I called him, and canceled the trip. I could have beat him up on the price from my gut feeling based on our conversations previously. In fact he said that he really wanted me to get the car as I was going to keep it as a restored car. Could not do that though. Not fair to him or myself. I learned through a third party that he sold it six months later. I inquired as our situation had improved by that time and I still wanted that '46.

 

Everyone is a bro....
I won't tell you what to think, here's what I think
I start with asking myself some questions.
What is it worth?
To me..what I paid for it? or...what It would cost to replace it
To someone else...what can they get another one for right now from somebody else?
Do I need it?
Do I have a bona-fide use for it or am I hanging onto it just in case?
am I going to junk it or sell it off anyway?
can I get another one cheaper than this person will pay me for it?
Will I get an offer this good later?
Do I want to sell one to the right buyer or do I want to sell one to everybody?

I prefer to Haggle, It shows you care enough about someone to put something personal into the deal and it will tell you if the other person respects you or not. It makes them EARN any good deal they get and it makes you earn your price. Not that it's wrong to not want to haggle... Lazy people and stuck-ups don't haggle what-so-ever.

Instead of lowering the price I like to "buy equity back out of the deal" such as saying "alright, if that's too much, I can pull the new tires and put the old one's back on for x$ credit".

Or I'll offer more time "If you can't afford it right now I'd accept a small non refundable deposit to cover my ad costs and hold it for X days"...That offer also works good for buying something on the come.

I never ask them what they are going to use it for or why they want it. If they happen to say, it goes in one ear and out the other. It's none of my business or anyone else's.

If someone doesn't like a price and won't haggle and comes back with the old "I can get those for $$$ all day long" I reply with "well, go get me some and I"ll make us both some money".

If they start picking the thing apart I'll say "I'm thirsty, would you like a pop? I'll be right back if you have any QUESTIONS"

Essentially it comes down to do they want it more than I do?

I went through all the pains and stuff dealing with friends and 3 brothers.
I don't consider it a business transfer but i like to maintain equity.
If it's something I'm planning to sell I advertise it publicly.
Instead of giving something away I'd rather either have them trade in some equity if they don't have the cash or help me with something but get it done when we transfer don't leave anything hanging and if you do and it goes sour walk away and don't bring it up again. sometimes even a marginal friend can be a blessing.

I went in halfsies with my neighbor on junking a couple trucks. I put up the money, He put up the labor. One rig we had a 4:11 posi dually axle and a 460 left that didn't sell. His 400M went bad. He wanted to swap my half of the the 460 for his half of the axle.
I said I'd pick up the axle when I got back in 2 weeks.
2 weeks later when I came over to pick up the axle it wasn't there.
"My old Lady made me junk it" ...It actually got sold to his tow truck buddy. I swore I'd never deal with him again.
However needing good neighbors and such He has helped out with ALOT of stuff and since I've been out of work they have sent over groceries unsoliited.
I think it's all more about who you are than what happens.
A deal is just stuff. stuff can be replaced.
When you make something too easy on someone or don't hold them to their word, you do them wrong
If someone needs a bona-fide break, charity has no strings attached.
If someone makes a profit from your charity, shame on them not you.
If you made money on a friends charity, be up front about it and offer something back.
Making someone work for what they want feels a lot better than hearing a loser you felt sorry for calling you an idiot when they are bragging about how they conned you.

The value of a friend is in what you have gone through with others who's mettle did not test true.
There is always a price to be paid for an education.
If you get to the point of thinking this way it will never bother you what happens after a deal is done

 

Good guys finish last!

 

I try to only buy stuff I may use. If I see something for a killer price and and I can flip it, I buy it. The money goes towards my project. I too have sold stuff to others that has been re-sold. But I know what I paid, and what I made, and may have lost. E-Bay, Barret Jackson has really f'd up the brotherhood of rod building. My $.02 MERRY CHRISTMAS!

 

I'll say until you're all sick of hearing it. COMMUNICATE YOUR DEAL UP FRONT, ESPECIALLY TO YOUR "BROS"!! What's the fuckin fear here? You worried? Something to hide? No balls? Afraid you'll insult them? You insult yourself and them if they don't know your mind. How about, "...sure bro, if you can use it. But if you plan on just selling it off it's not available right now." "Yeah but I can really use it." "Ok, then, (insert your terms here), and we have a deal". If he balks in the least he's fuckin ya, or tryin. If he agrees stand by the deal, BOTH OF YOU.

Trust me kids, there's no more empowering feeling than being able to do that and sleep well after. Be prepared to lose that friend or bro and don't cling to that if it happens. My answer when someone sets out to or gets away with taking advantage is real simple. I'll just tell the truth, ALL OF IT. There was a time I got screwed out of commision on a big sale. The fuck thought it was too much for "a guy like me" and flat said in these words "I'm fuckin you out of it...". FIne pal I'll simply tell my story in full, the full truth and include all the details. He threatened me with physical harm and such and I didn't care. I've since told dozens associated with him and the buisness exactly what he'd done. Come to think of it I don't see the fucker or hear anything about him. Did it work? I don't care. I sleep well and still offer all I can to my "bros".

 

No, Bro-Deals are a thing of the past. I have scored some very fair deals thanks to the members of the HAMB & Ford Barn, but been burned when I travel outside the circle.

 

G'day all and Merry Christmas,

I have been giving bro deals to a young fellow who has been a bit down on his luck. The engine died in his truck and I offered to lend him a complete 350 to get him going. No, he wants to fix what he's got (a motor he bought from me a couple of years ago) so he is bumming rides till its fixed.

I had a biopsy done on Tuesday and am sure you all know what that means. Anyway, I go to leave for work Wednesday morning and there is a Christmas card stuck in the back door with a gift card inside from this kid. He had to bum a ride across town to drop this off as a surprise. Made my day.

mitch

 

Brought a tear to my eye with that story. Somebody "gets it". Merry Christmas to you, and good luck...

 

I was going to type the 30 someodd times I've been burned/swindled/tricked but instead I'll just say that we need to be more aggressive in our bad dealings. I'm known around here for coming back to the one(s) who wronged me and getting even,,REAL even,,and over time with a little "Interest",,lol.
Like the fellow who posted here that gave some rare rims to a friend and the friend didn't use them but wouldn't give them back until he received $400.oo for them. That is a severe "Wrong",,a slap in the face,,a theft.
I would have taken them back by whatever means neccessary,,even by force. I've done this many times in the past and man I could tell stories of the damage I've done. I would never start anything or steal anything outright but I'll damn sure "set things right".
I don't make friends locally because people talk about me but I don't get taken for a ride anymore either. Finacially I'm doing much better.
I've learned the hard way that "Friends" are a joke and they're only around because they want something, (Laws of Attraction), they want what you possess,,,,,be it material,talent,spiritual,intellectual,acceptance,etc.
That's what slowly forms casual attractions into friendships. Then your guard is lowered and you're an open target for them or their friends later.

 

I'm sorry.... thats just sad...
When I think of my favorite times of my life, its not sitting around playing with my THINGS or counting money...
Its spending time with my friends.

Dont be a push over, choose your friends well...
But I could never live the way you describe!

 

I agree with that. I've given a lot of great deals to folks and I've been given a lot of great deals on stuff I needed. I guess it's a matter of discernment. I've been burned a couple of times times giving a "Bro" deal but then afterward I know that's just how it is with that person and I don't give them any more deals like that.

On the other hand, I've practically given parts away to complete strangers if I knew they needed what I had for their project. For example I was at a swap meet last year. A guy had a bunch of the old screw on type hupcaps for $2 a piece. I bought 5 or 6 of them. One of them was for an Oakland. As I continued through the swap area a guy spotted the cap I bought and asked me if I would be willing to sell it to him. I asked him if he had a Oakland and what the specifics were and he filled me in. I could tell he really wanted/needed this cap. You know how much I sold it to him for? $2!! Shit man! I don't have an Oakland!

Over at Stovebolt.com I've had many guys give me a bro deal because I needed something and I even had a couple of guys (complete strangers to me) send me a part I needed for nothing and even pay the postage and then wouldn't take anything in return. Man! That's the spirit of this car thing. Pass it on. If I've been burned once or twice. So what? Live and learn but that doesn't mean I won't help the next guy if I can.

Now if I feel like somebody is out to burn me then all bets are off! Choose your "Bros" wisely, that's all.

 

"even by force",
Well, just speaking for myself. In my late 50's the last thing I want or need is a Assault charge and/or a civil suit for damages.

I do agree about some "friends" using you. I've had it happen too. Those are the ones that are "cut" from friendship though.

I've got a acquaintance (previous friend) that is the buy very low and sell very high persuasion. To his "friends" he gives you things,won't take money, but with a "hook" attached.

Had a falling out with him on a item I brokered for him to a guy out west. He never would have had a link to that sale without me. I sold for him three identical items that he left with me fifteen year ago and would never take them back. Always with the answer "Just sell them, we'll split the money".

Finally sold the last one, ten years later. Yep, I was a dumbass to let it go that long, I'll admit to that. But they were not a real high demand item for a real limited market (Buick). Before I sold it, I called him to let him know like in all the other cases how much I was getting for it. Well, his thought was that it worth TRIPLE what I sold it for. And this last one sold for three or four times what the others previously sold for. The buyer when I told him that I had one in the correct color, before I told him how much I wanted, he told me how much he wanted to pay for it!

Well, now my "friend" announces that he wants to give me twenty bucks on a 250 dollar purchase. I'm the one doing all the communications, packaging, taking it to the post office, getting payment, taking it to my bank, cashing the check, taking a chance that the check is no good, etc, and I'm getting about 7% commission? Can you say BS? A hundred bucks isn't going to break me, but I'm not going to get screwed either if I can help it.

Well, finally settled that matter, he got his half, I got my half. I had him come to my office, gave him a photocopy of the check. Laid the money on the desk, in front of him took the postage charge out of the stack.

I then said, I was leaving the office, take what you think is right. He took half and left. Haven't spoke to him since, almost three years ago.

SO, we all have been used one time or another. But true friends are always there.