Hello, it has been a long time since I have worked on a vehicle with points. I know the vehicle runs well and low miles on the motor. I drove it and shut it off back in October, and now there is no start. A shot of ether in the carb and no difference, so I am sure it is a spark issue. New cap, rotor, points, condenser from napa and same problem. Pull the coil wire out of the distributor cap and turn it over, coil is working. Take the cap off and spin the motor, the points have a good blue spark and they are set to 18 thousands. remove a plug wire from a plug, insert a Philips screwdriver and turn it over with the screwdriver near a ground, cant get any spark. And before changing the ignition points, condenser, cap and rotor, it had the same problem. The spark at the points was not very good, so wanted new points, but could not get spark to the plugs then either. Any Ideas? I sure could use a game plan when I go back over there tomorrow.
. I thought if the points have an arc the condenser is good? Agreed on the skunge, I hate skunge, never a good thing. If you don't have spark plug tester like this one Pull the plug out of the hole, put the plug wire on it and hold it at a ground source while cranking with your remote trigger or have the friend drinking a beer inside the car while you work under the hood crank it. If it sparks, it should fire, no fire then the issue is between the plugs and the points. Not a lot of options, see post number 2. Sounds stupid but it has happened to me
I do have a spark tester just like the one you show, the package claims it is for electronic ignitions. And it does not spark either. I assumed it was because it was for electronic and not enough spark to activate it. I can pull the plugs and test that way also, just thought that would get a spark from shoving the screwdriver in the wire and holding it to a ground. So a known good condenser, not sure how I can find that. Was hoping that if there was spark at the points, the condenser would be good. And the points are brand new with the skrunge left out.
If you shut it off in October the points could have skunge. Honest Injun. Maybe they've been sitting at NAPA since Clinton was a Governor. Always try the simple stuff first, and it doesn't cost anything. Lots of bum condensers these days.
I just put the new points in it today. One thing I did do after setting them, I take a business card out of my wallet and I use it to wipe the grease/dirt off from the feeler gauge afterwords. I turn the engine over to where the points are closed, insert card and drag it through until the card comes out clean. And I think the points have a good looking blue spark at this time. Maybe I should drag a points file through them, Just thinking not a great idea with modern quality points. Back in the day you could file them til the cows came home, now you file them and ruins them. Removes the protective coating.
I saw this happen at drags. Everyone scratching their heads because of no spark to the plugs. Everything else working and new plugs installed. Still nothing , UNTIL a young fella says, "hey Dad, isn't there supposed to be a little black button in this cap?" No-one had noticed the carbon button had dropped out of the cap.
Sometimes PQQR ol Henry J acts up and DEMANDS new plugs , so far it knows what it wants, and starts easier , so i just give him new ones each spring just for the fun of it.
Sure I will, also new wires. I just am trying to troubleshoot a no start issue. I did not think all the plugs and wires would go bad at the same time to cause no start.
I am going back to napa tomorrow for a carb kit on a old holley, will pick up new wires and plugs at the same time.
I believe if you have a good condenser the points will spark less than if you have a bad one. The condenser charges when the points open and the primary field collapses in the coil. If the condenser is weak it won't absorb that charge, and the resulting energy sparks across the point gap microseconds after the points begin to open. Try a different condenser.
I've had it happen to me before, new plugs even. Took 'em out, cleaned em, checked the gap, everything looked good, but no spark. An older mechanic at work told me to change the plugs, they were "washed out" as he called it. I couldn't see the reason, but at that point I was willing to try it. Dang if that didn't do the trick. He told me that he's seen it a number of times, mostly with Champion plugs, which is what I had installed. Went with AC plugs and never looked back.
Check for continuity/resistance on the coil wire itself and as mentioned before check to make sure the rotor is making contact with the dist. button.
OK, and a new condenser while I am there. I should add, when I first changed the points and condenser, it tried to fire. Actually it was running on it's own for maybe 5 seconds. I released the key and the motor was still turning on it's own, but maybe 300 RPM, just could not get the speed needed to stay running. And then try again and nothing since. Like a one shot condenser. And this is my concern, I hear and read that the quality of these new condensers is so poor, you need to buy 4 to get 1 good one. But I do not know if having a good spark at the points eliminates a bad condenser.
Turns out it must be tough to make a high voltage, maybe .20uf capacitor, in a small case. At a certain price point anyway. So mostly they don't. Maybe that's not yer problem but a gazillion are already out there. Don't buy 4 or 5 POS to find a "good" one, use a good old school Echlin or Standard out of the junkbox and try that.
" Pull the coil wire out of the distributor cap and turn it over, coil is working" do you mean you are actually getting spark from the king lead?
Question! how do you know the coil is good? because it sparked? might be worth swapping out the coil. I have seen bad coils do this.
Once the coil is working , The chain goes from the coil, to the wire, to the cap, to the rotor, back to the cap, to the plug wire, to the plug. Coils can throw spark and still not start or run correctly because they are weak
Similar happened me this fall. Good spark at low rpm, fell apart as rpm's increased. Was a bad wire leading from battery to the coil. Hard to diagnose.
A "nice blue spark at the points" isn't a good thing. The condensor is meant to stop that so points don't burn out. That was indicated above by ebbspeed. Also the advice about the coil wire, had the same issue on a Model A a few years ago. Everything checked out and had me 2nd guessing myself. A cup of coffee and milk crate later I decided "what if" about the coil wire. Yup. Ran like a top with a new wire to the cap. Follow the path of least resistance/effort. Usually a win.
Some great ideas here, will have a few things to check. I stole the coil and a coil wire from a good running vehicle, swapped them over and it made no difference, so I put things back the way they were and bought the new cap rotor points condenser. I think I will put that coil back on. Wont hurt to try it again with the new points etc ... That makes sense, I was digging through a drawer that had some nos ignition parts, could only find points and rotors, all the condensers were gone. I do have some motors back in the engine room that can rob a condenser off of. Problem with these motors, they all ran good at one time and deemed worthy of saving, that was 30 years ago. Of course they all have a story before they made it to the shed. One 235 was rebuilt, then it sat in a 55 chevy truck for 10 years, cab was all rusted out and trees growing through it. Uncle junked the truck 30 years ago and saved the motor. Will probably be the engine I end up pulling the condenser off of. And I will have no idea if it is a good condenser or not. But there is 10 or 12 engines to try.
A lot of times when I go to the salvage yard and see a vehicle that might still have a point style ignition I pull the condenser from it. The old ones are much better than most anything you buy new today.
I got it running today. I grabbed a old condenser and put on it, it took right off. I also pulled the plugs and cleaned them up on the wire wheel. This motor has only 2k miles or so on it after a rebuild 6 years ago. I would just assume that it had a new tuneup at that time. I see the plugs are new, the wires are total crap, ordered new ones from napa and be here tomorrow. All said and done, I think it was the condenser all along giving problems. Thanks everyone for all the input and support!
The Jalopy Journal
