NORTH WEST!! whos up for some speed trials on a real dry lake?!!

Sorry. Didn't mean to put the cart in front of the horse. The northeast has a lot of LSR guys. If you are able to get this off the ground think you will have no shortage of entries.

 

well the guys in the north east might have a ways to go since were in the northwest

 

I knew I should never have bought that goddam chinese compass!! That must be the reason that people in El Paso kept telling me that the Bonneville salt flats weren't anywhere near there.

 

Alvord lake is remote! You are looking at Burns Oregon or Winnemucca Nevada for Hospitals.

There is a small I mean very small store and 3 room hotel in Fields Oregon.

I spent 3 summers in the area at White Horse Ranch bucking hay etc.

The one thing the ranch used was a medi helicopter service which worked well. Not sure on the feasability but it is an option.

 

If 2 wheels are allowed, count on me

 

yea sorry i didnt reply! its been a hectic week for me, i had a few papers to write and various school related things i had to attend. BUT, bullington, if you dont mind or if youd like, could you possibly find out what medical flight services could be used and maybe get a hold of one to see what the monetary cost would be to have an arrangement with them for a 3 or 4 day weekend?

mike your amazing! the lake should be dry still, the guy at the BLM says its usually relatively dry until the snow pack in the steens starts to melt off, then its submerged until like mid/late may or so. if anyones interested just like mike is doing now, i might be able go on a winter camping trip (i know, butt ass freezing) to just see it with my own eyes, if any one else dares to brave the cold it would be great to have company! also, im going to be getting ahold of my guy in the BLM soon to let him know planning has picked back up and see if maybe he wants to have a meeting to further discuss the topic and its fine points, if anyone would like to join for that as well the support would help.

jay, its not limiting only classes like the coupe and roadster classes are pre 38, i added specific classes for other later models so you can get cars like the famous oregon studebaker that use to run at b-ville (and still runs at woodburn drags) and the other cars of that nature. there is a serious need to have a pow-wow and discuss what limiting factors we will impose in the inaugural races, such as a speed cap, fuels allowed, and whether or not blowers will be allowed and if so a maximum engine displacement to which it can be used so as to keep vehicle max speeds below the cap (speed cap may just be for show as to not scare off the BLM or create a high insurance premium).

whether or not we will have a motorcycle class is unknown at this point, it hasnt even come into the topic until now. if so it would get the same restrictions of year much like the car classes just because we do want this to be a nostalgic event or a throwback if you will. but again it will be looked into if there is an interest, but will ultimately come down to the BLM's reaction and insurance cost.

we will definitely have a mandatory roll cage rule in place for all vehicles running, with specifics on grade of material and amount of bars, but they will not have to be a fixed cage, rather they will have to be firmly secured to the frame utilizing a specific grade of bolt or pin system if removable. most safety requirements have been discussed, but for those in the PNW, most of you know Joyce the Hot Rod lady, she is close friends with quite a few former SCTA presidents and has offered to tap that resource when needed so i will be getting good sound advice through her when we finally get to that point, this is not going to be a fast process and we need to do everything with great care and focus.

 

clubs that have shown express interest in being NCTA clubs:

1) Rod-Benders
2) Clutch Poppers in Alberta, Can.
3) Swindlers
4) Coffins

clubs that have or names of a club someone stated might be interested:

1) Injectors (acey_ducey)
2) Demons (sinister_custom)

if anyone else has a club, knows of a club, or if i failed to name one here, LET ME KNOW! or if anyone knows people in the Slo-Pokes that could coax them into doing this that would be rad as well!

 

i lived in the n.w. for 30 yrs . they have tried this on alot of dry lakes . they dont compact well . the "black rock" desert is where the land speed records are set . 110 miles north of reno nev. . gerlach nv. to be exact . seen the english & breelove try it . the english went over 600 mph . i think they still have the record . i have pix of the cars . they tried the dry lakes where i lived , but as i said ... no compaction so no runs . good luck ! ... steve

 

Give some thought to scheduling a meet around Hot August Nights.

 

if you look at the pic bullington posted, you can see the tracks on the lake bed where someone was driving, and ive seen video on you tube of guys driving across it in old millitary vehicles and it seems pretty solid, even the guy from the BLM (who by the way helped organize lsr events previously in az.) said the surface would be good for it. not to mention what i've already found, the womans unofficial lsr was set on alvord.

 

I'm excited to see how Mikes trip was to the lake and see some close up pics

 

i second that!

 

alright guys, the verdict is in on the dry lake surface, mike miller just got back from his trip out to alvord and this is what we are faced with.

"Just got back from the alverod dry lake, We had a great trip. The fall colors in the high desert are beautiful. Fields is a clean little town with a gas station and store, café, liquor store in one building there are about 6 very tidy small rooms off to the side. we headed out to the lake afted talking to some hunters and locals. The road out there turns to gravel about 6 miles out of fields and you go another 2 miles before turning in to the lake which sit about 4000 ft of the main road. the lake is a total if 8 miles long and 2 miles wide, it would be a great place for a club (maybe 2 dozen guys) to spend a 3 day weekend but is not the place to put on an tri-state event. I took a GPS and made some measurements of the drivable lake botom. for width all I could get was 1.7 miles the longest run I could make in a straight line was 3.8 miles before I ran into vegitation and uneven ground. the best a guy could do safely out there would be a flying mile and that would require some course prep work for speeds over 100. the surface texture is uneven going from tire screeching hard at one end to soft crust in the middle and I feel you would be ancle deep in dust after a dozen passes. the ground is packed but not hard, I dug a hole about 16 inches and hit wet dirt, the kind you could plant a crop in. The road in is a rough and narrow track through sage brush and grass I barely had room for the truck and trailer and is rutted for the last 1000 feet. The lake is bracketed on both ends by private land. I have attatched some pictures, the passes I made in the nasty little vehicle (NLV) were at 45-50 MPH. I think a few guys could have a fun(and dusty) weekend there but that's abought all. There is no cell service, and emergency services come from Burns 140 miles, the place is managed by the burns ranger district. That’s what I learned about it, again we had a great trip and stayed at a nice little free camp ground about 50 miles away. I can send more pics if needed Reguards Mike miller."

i will post the pics he sent me in a little bit but lets kick off some talks.

talking points:
1)from what i understand, and from what i heard talking to jimmy shine that this sounds to be very similar to the surface at harpers and maybe a little like el mirage (with the exception of a wet surface deeper),this may be circumstantial as it may have rained recently or something, but i have heard that harpers and el mirage both have very loose surfaces like this.

2)isn't el mirage only (or use to be) only a one mile course? is every one fine with a mile? if not what suggestions or alternatives are there?

3) given the circumstances of the surface, it may be necessary to cap the amount of registered vehicles the first go around to preserve the course and if it holds up, times and speeds stay high, and the course stays safe then we can bump the number of registrations allowed for the next event, thoughts?

4)camping on the lake bed is allowed if im not mistaken, i believe thats what i was told by the man at the BLM. this should be double checked that way it wouldnt be necessary to drive to and from town or the camp ground each day of the event.

5)as far as electronics go, i knew there would be no cell service and a long range walkie system would need to be utilized. I have a CB that we could rig into a vehicle and use in case of emergencies just as a back up. so what we are looking at needing is the timing equipment and walkie's.

6)i have a checklist type deal i downloaded from the SCTA website a while back that has duty's that need to be done as far as course and event prep. whats every ones input, insight, or ideas on how that should be handled.

thats all i can come up with for right now, so lets open the flood gates! every one put in your two cents, eveyones opinion matters and is needed and valuable!

 

here they are!

the access road






the surface




luck guy mike havin' fun with out us!





if those dont light a fire under you i dont know what will! its going to take alot of hard, careful, and meticulous planning but i think we can pull this off if we all banned together and work out the kinks!

 

this might be a good thing for a small group with a couple cars to go check out. see if the blm would accept less insurance if it were a small group with no money being made just split up the costs like a camping trip maybe just make it an informal camping trip and run your cars what is the blm gonna say if your just camping with some timing equipment

also do you need a off road vehicle license on your car like you need on the Oregon dunes

and maybe for emergency communication we could rent a satellite phone like this http://www.satellitephonestore.com/

 

I was out there all day and saw nobody, just some horses and got buzzed by an airplane. the people in it waved. there are other camp grounds and rv parks within 50 miles, we stayed at Virgin Vally off 140 about 1.5 hrs away. Very nice.

 

I am so down for this! count me in !!!!!

 

we wouldnt need an off road permit as far as i know, the permit gained from the BLM to hold the event would cover any and all registrant's. As for the satellite phone great idea! we will need to nail down the pertinents like whether or not the BLM wants emergency services on hand (which im more than certain they will) in which case i doubt we would need it cause they will have CB's or something to get in contact with their constituents such as a life-flight and what not. but i may just raise some money and invest in the walkie system for "officials."

 

Neat pics. The Swindlers are still in. We'll be lucky if we break 100 in our car, and 125 would be pushing it.

Can the surface be prepped by dragging something across the ground to prep a track area? I would think that a mile or mile and a half course would be fine. Perhaps it could be set up as a 1.5 mile course, timed at 1 mile only (flying mile style), with a 1.5 mile shut down area?

great pics!

 

Thanks for that updaye and photos. The El Mirage course is 1.3 miles with a 1.3 mile shutdown. In a couple of the photos the surface looked considerably different to El Mirage. I have a link to an El Mirage video which I think, shows the El Mirage surface. To me it looks "crunchy" and like it maynot stand up. This year at El Mirage the surface has been good at the start and not holding up at around the mile marker. The surface really depends on the rain it gets over the winter. A lot of rain and a slow dry seems to be the recipe for a good surface. El Mirage was rained out in July this year. No August meet (Bonneville). The Sept. surface didn't hold despite the july rain. It would be interesting to see that surface after rain and a drying period. The road in doesn't look ay worse that the east end entrance of El Mirage until they paved part of it. The west end entrance is still pretty bad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwMxf7klrks

 

Trying to find some decent shots of El Mirage surface. This is as close as I can get.

[/IMG]

 

What does your BLM say access- use?

 

im not sure what you mean.

i was thinking the same thing about prepping, i wonder what can be done, it would take ALOT of water to sprinkle on the desired course area to create a surface that we would call perfect i think, but does any one have an idea of what we might be able to do if anything? on the course length i like this idea hudson, lets run with it for now, who seconds this?


more pics from mike and this
"Fields station looks clean and well run by a young couple regular gas and diesel both over $4.00 diesel was $4.70. Denino is 23 miles south of fields station, there are more rooms and a RV park plus slots and all the nevada crap. vvcg is a snap shot of the camp we stayed at, pit toilets and about 24 spaces, might be a good spot for a planning meeting and tour base.I think that is about it for now, I'd like to go out there next spring maybe last of may and see what the surface looks like then."






and i agree, the surface will most likely be different come next year, i have seen pics on the web where it is much smoother in texture and is almost shades lighter in color as well.

 

El Mirage dry lake is part of a large off road use area. It is open to the public and as of Oct. there is a user fee. $15 per day, $30 for a week, $90 for a yearly pass. The SCTA has negotiated a $70 pass for SCTA members but that is limited to the six meets. But it does include passes for two attendant vehicles. Not being part of the BLM/SCTA negotiations I can only guess at what the agreement is. The SCTA uses El Mirage six times a year. And, I believe, pays the BLM 3% of the entry fees. The SCTA has an area of approx. 1/4 mile wide by 2.6 miles in length. The lake is open to the public and each club has to provide "patrols" spaced along the course to, not only watch the racers for any problems but also to help keep stupid people from wandering on the course. A problem that I don't think would exist with this lake bed. The SCTA has a long and good relationship with the BLM and we do work with them for El Mirage clean up days and the like. The cost of insurance I cannot comment on as I don't know about that. It might be an idea, that if this "event" is to take place, for the organisers to make a trip to El Mirage and see how it is done there. If it is to happen a small event might be the way to start.

 

i was thinking the same thing about prepping, i wonder what can be done, it would take ALOT of water to sprinkle on the desired course area to create a surface that we would call perfect i think,


A few years ago at El Mirage there was a major problem with the surface breaking up. A couple of large water trucks were brought in but the results weren't worth the effort. I think the quality of the surface is in the hands of mother nature.

 

totally know what you mean, from what im gathering and assuming it wont be a SCTA size event anyways. and for this first year i expect it will be more of a gathering that we call an event haha.

 

The access road to Alvord Desert Lake reminds me of the dirt road leading to Lake Gairdner in South Australia ... except no "roos" jumping across.

Here's some pics of the ~150 kilometer (~93 mile) dirt road from Port Augusta to Lake Gairdner [from the Dry Lakes Racers Australia (DLRA) website (http://www.dlra.org.au)]:


This is the road for the last two hours in.


On the last leg in.


First sight of the salt.

You might be asking yourself, why the heck I posted pictures of a dirt road in the southern Australian outback? ... quite simple ... if our Aussie brethren have to endure 2+ hours of dirt roads to go Dry Lake Racing, then us Yanks shouldn't complain too much about 2 miles of dirt road to access Alvord!
_________________________________________________

I'd think the real issue is whether or not a proper racing surface can be prepared on the Alvord Desert Lake bed.

I'm by no means an expert (though I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once ), but from the pics posted in this thread ... and from these that I culled from the Internet:


June 14th 2006 (after an unusually wet Spring)


August 23rd 2007 (muddy and lots of vegetation)


February 4th 2008 (snow!)

... I'm not sure using water trucks to prep the lake bed would be wise or even feasible.

Hopefully there's a time of year when the lake bed slowly dries out ... so that the top "crust" can be dragged ala the SCTA crews at B'ville:



Then again, maybe I don't know what the heck I'm talking about ... let's hope so ... cuz' it would be fantastic to have yet another venue for Dry Lake Racing in the US.

Does anyone know more about the "Women's Unofficial Land Speed Record" set at Alvord in 1976? ... what were the lake bed conditions like back then?

 

the only thing i know about it is that i read it in a book about oregon while i was at costco. lol

 

I checked the altitude where I parked the rig 4025 ft. on my gps. the 2 miles of gravel is well maintained and I could drive 40-50 MPH (Canadian freeway), but I did loose one trailer tire and a stone broke a clearance light. I think the stuff will pack down over the winter when it gets wet. when I dug the hole and hit damp dirt it was firm but you could scrape it up with a shovel and the east edge was actually hard where water had come down from the alkaline flat and dried, I don't know if there is Betonite , a particularly slimy substance, in it but I doubt it. I did wet down a spot and it soaked in right away.