Projects Nostalgia Front Engine Dragster - Flathead

Main goal: 10 or 11 second car that can be run at nostalgia and et events. No crew required. A clean, simple, basic car.

Based on my experience with REDs and OHV engines, this equates to something like:

edit - updated expectations based on feedback
Weight - 1300 to 1500 lbs wet w/driver
Power - 150 to 250 at the flywheel
Electrical and cooling systems both needed

I'm trying to organize this thread for clarity, and I'll attempt to update the info if/when it changes.

 

The story:
I was first exposed to drag racing in high school as part of the auto shop program. We raced an early 80's sunbird with a mild SBC, TH350 and 9" rear called the "Class Act". It ran high to mid 12's with a little spray and 13's w/o. After a 5 year or so break for college and work, my younger brother (who also went through the auto shop program) moved in with us and we started building a RED. Being mostly broke all the time it was an 80's wide front chassis with a mild SBC, powerglide and 9". It mostly ran 10's. Eventually he bought me out, made major updates to the chassis and built a stout alcohol injected SBC for it. It runs deep in the 8's now, except he's got a big family and it mostly sits in the trailer.

I've always liked the front engine dragsters and old stuff. He really likes the modern stuff, but we share a passion for cars and racing. 9 years ago or so, I had the opportunity to buy a chassis that I thought I could use so I did, and I've been collecting parts and playing with it ever since. You'll likely see "place holder" parts in this build that I've gotten for little to nothing, but won't really work well in the bigger scheme.

I've been involved in racing on and off for 20 years but never driven a car down the track. I'm always the mechanic/crew. I've got a bit more cash flow and recently acquired an 8ba flathead, maybe now's the time?

 

You want to build a 10 second flathead car that does not need a crew. OK now wake up the nightmare is over.

Flatheads are cool. 325 HP out of a flathead is an exotic build. You don't drive an exotic without a crew if you have an IQ above 69 Forest.

OK I pee peed in your post toasties, someone had to.

 

Here are some pictures to get started. I've built a few engines, but never a flattie (other than briggs , and am fair at welding/fab. Is this a project you'd like to see, or is it not appropriate for this board?

Working on the chassis in 2016


Some body fabrication:




Rear wheel and tires were free but don't really fit the theme.

 

porknbeaner - thanks for your honesty and re-aligning my expectations. In 2010 you suggested 300hp was possible for a street flathead, what's changed?
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/flathead-horsepower-help.520823/page-2

How should I change my goals to make them more realistic? 200HP and 1500lbs can still be an 11 second car (barely).

 

Maybe I've been too hasty about a supercharger? I've never built a supercharged engine, only turbocharged on the street. I was thinking the recurring expense was higher, but it looks like restraint straps are only ~$110 every 2 years which isn't bad (I thought it was ~$600 every time). The big question I have is if I need to go to a /15 suit.

 

Looking forward to your project from beginning to end. Maybe come see you run it down the strip .

 

You run the car in your Avatar? I might have to come watch you run around the track!

 

A supercharger on a Flathead, the three main bearings is a problem, requiring a girdle the length of the block, and heavier duty rods.

 

Is this an old F/C or Altered chassis?

 

I’ll be keeping an eye on this thread as a couple of buddies and I are going down much the same road. There is a ton of Flathead racing here in California and we want to get in on the fun!

 

You could have chosen a much less expensive engine to run.
A flathead can be made to run in the 7's but you will need a LARGE budget and several crew.
Some strips may not let you run a car like that with no crew.

 

My bad, I was going from memory. This was an S&W F/C chassis. Never completed when I purchased it. Here is a link: https://swracecars.com/product/unny-car-chassis-kit-ta-fc-n-fc/
I've gone through and sonic'd all the tubing and checked all the welds. It should pass a cert, but I don't plan to go that fast.

Marty, will a girdle alone fix mains ok? I see billet and 4 bolt mains being sold. Anyone have pics of a good setup?

 

Totally agree on the less expensive engine.
There is no way I want to run 7's especially in a short wheel base car. 11s is fine, 10s would be nice.
Interesting on the tracks, I've never run into that with our 8 second car.

 

There is a lengthy thread over on the Fordbarn Early V8 forum now about all of this.
The thread title is, "Let's build a drag race 8BA engine".

Here is a pic of the type of girdle I have been using.

 

Years back a few friends of mine bought an old front engine dragster. Same situation , they wan't something that could be taken to the track with 2 guys or one guy if the other guy was fishing that weekend.
they bought a rusted out Suburban with a 4 bolt 350 and did a basic hone and rering. Installed a flat tappet cam and single plane intake . Rebuilt the 882 heads .
The car went low 11's in the 1/4 and was towed to and from the track on a homemade single axle open trailer. It got footbraked with a th350 with a shift kit.
they had less than 6K in the whole operation and had way more fun than many of the other racers would had 10 times that much money in their operations.
Trying to do that with a flathead would require a much larger investment . Simply because flathead stuff costs more to get 300 hp out of one.

 

Look up Roseville Carl's thread on his flathead powered dragster.

 

Check out “Lawrie” over on Fordbarn. He has a blown flathead FED running 9s. All home built.

 

I'd like to but I'm still waiting for my registration to be approved over there. I can't see any of the attachments or pics. Doing lots of reading though.

Edit 7/27 - Got approved, yay! Now I can see pictures

 

Have you thought about an inline six? Waaay cheaper than a flattie to build, but still has that vintage vibe.

 

Weight is everything when asking for top performance
Weight / ET3 X 197.14 = HP needed
1600# divided by 1000 x 197.14 = 315.42 HP min to run 10 flat under the right circumstances , Big issue if you plan to run those rear tires, 9 x 29 is more than enough tire. Personally , being in Nostalgia Racing for close to 30 years now, I think you started off with the wrong Chassis/platform. But since you are dailing in your ET, you will be fine

 

That is horsepower needed at the rear wheel. I'd add about 10% for losses in a racing driveline for 347 hp at the crank.

 

This is what I'd been planning to do for a long time. I have 4 of them in my shop atm, and have read a ton of your stuff Frenchtown. I turbocharged one in my '69 F100 7 or so years ago. I'm helping a guy put one in a T bucket now, but thinking flathead on the FED. I can always change my mind again

 

Completely agree here except I'm not looking for top performance.

Right on the money but 10 flat is too close to 9 something on the nice cold, low altitude, tracks that we tend to run. Then chassis cert, competition license, more safety gear etc... Been there, but that's not what I want to build this car for. I'm ok with 11.50's. 10.50's would be great. To be totally honest I might be a little embarrassed to 12's in a dragster (maiden and tuning runs excepted).

For sure. In the first couple of posts I tried to explain that these were freebies and I'm using them to roll around the shop with.

I don't understand this one. Can you give more details? I've re-worked the rear tubes to match SFI2.6A, and started extending the wheelbase. It's been a while since I worked on the chassis, but I'm thinking it'll be 180" or so when I'm done. The cage may be a little tall compared to most real 60's diggers, but I think it looks ok. It actually looks a lot like the dragster in the "Let's build a drag race 8BA engine" thread referenced above. Are we talking looks here, or something technical wrong? Sometimes I misunderstand.

 

I've got questions too.
What do you guys think about sprung vs. hard nose on a FED?

Engine wise it looks like I could go bored, stroked, ported and alcohol injection with mods for reliability or a fairly mild build with a supercharger (forged pistons, maybe new rods, main bearing supports, etc..).

It looks like Lawrie is turning around 5800rpm and staying together ok.

Does that seem like a reasonable redline? Which engine build would you recommend?

Anyone have flow numbers for the 59ab or 8ba blocks? Doing a little imaginary racing in desktop dyno/drag.

 

There was a FED at last weekend's Detroit Dragway Reunion race that I marveled at how smoothly it went down the track. It had a torsion spring front suspension. The wheelbase was not that long - maybe 150"?
A 1962 Dragmaster

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/detroit-dragway-reunion-pics-added.1200342/

 

That's a nice looking car too. Triangulated bottom links on the torsion front. I like the cam driven fuel pump. Any reason not to on a flathead?

We used to pit near these two. Always liked the way they ran:

 

Comes down to "How much money do you want to spend"... and you just might have to do it 2 or 3 times with a Flathead.... why? ... because your using a 70 year old block to start with.

 

without seeing it firsthand , I cant say anything technically wrong about it , just that its a funny car chassis trying to become a dragster and a lot of work. I feel that you could have started from scratch and built a more period piece with less effort. If you are enjoying yourself in this endeavor, thats all that really maters and my opinion does not

 

Ok, gotcha. I do appreciate the input! The chassis was cheaper than buying the tube.