Technical Nothing say's gut punch more than finding water in the oil in your Flathead * UPDATE *

Last night water was found in the oil of the Confused pickup.

The truck has been running like a top and has made several trips around the block and everything was looking good for this weekends maiden voyage to Kentucky,Dave decided to change the break in oil and was shocked when he removed the catch pan.

Now trying to figure out the next step,he spent a ton on that engine. HRP

 

Dang, that's disheartening to say the least. Had the head-bolts been re-torqued after the first heat cycle?

 

at least it wasnt the crank

 

As said above Re-torque the heads

 

I really don't know,this is Dave's first Flathead and he just might not be aware
of the need to re-torque the bolts.

I also know he changed the intake after the engine was rebuilt.

Posting the problem here just might result in a easy fix and just might not be as bad as he thinks.

Thanks guys

 

I hate to be negative, but please explain how head bolt torque can leak water to the oil. No water jacket in the intake. Only thing I can reason is crack in crank case. Please prove me wrong. Or crack in lifter valley.

 

It might be worth investing in a pair of head gaskets just to inspect the engine and be sure of what's going on.

 

...or warm up the engine, remove plugs, and pressurize the cooling system. (Stant radiator pump, designed for this purpose. NAPA stocks the Stant pump. Different sizes caps are available...)
Whichever cylinder pumps water when cranking is the culprit.

OR: Remove coil wire when engine is cold, radiator full.
Crank engine over, 4 to 5 revolutions.
Remove plugs, tap each one on the palm of your hand, look for water drops.
(Old 'Indian' trick, used it for years...)

 

I am not sure where you are going with this but if the heads are loose they will leak water down the bore and into the crankcase.

Old Hot Rodders rule of thumb was to run the motor for 20/30 minutes then let the motor cool completely down and retorque the heads. Also after 400 to 500 miles retorque them again.

 

Danny, antifreeze or water? could it be condensation? i heard it could be a little humid down there.

 

Antifreeze/water,there is a dehumidifier in the shop.

As for humid,oh yeah and hot,several 99 degree days in a row.

It's so hot the chickens are laying hard boiled eggs & the cows are giving evaporated milk! HRP

 

....................That's hilarious!...Well....unless you're there having to deal with it.

 

We had a flathead that was fully rebuilt and the machinist ***ured us he had surfaced the block. We had several water seeps from the new offy heads, toque re torque. changed again to Navarro heads and a seal well cube in the water. Still a fail. Anyway long story short we had other issues from the same shop causing us to pull the motor and go through everything again and lightly surface the deck surface. Been sweet for 7000 Mls.
What I am trying to say is the old don't ***UME . It made an *** of me.

 

All I can say is I've had a grand total of one flathead built. And I was surprised how much the bolts initially needed to be retorqued.
This is all despite the fact machine shop put one gasket in backwards (upside down??) And it let go after an hours running.

 

Interested if hearing if retorquing the head bolts solve the problem. On my motors, I go across the bolts with a torque wrench several times, after the motor has cooled.

Neal

 

I've read that you need to torque them heads at least three times.

 

The heads must be re torqued every time the engine has run up to temp and cooled as many times as it takes until the nuts do not take anymore turns from the torque wrench. I have done the retorque 5 times on my current engine when I installed the offenhauser aluminum heads. The expansion and contraction of the iron and aluminum cause the heads to walk around a bit as the gasket settles in. This is not an optional procedure. Blow a head gasket and you'll need to resurface the heads.

 

Head studs/bolts require a sealer, right? I will be doing this later this year with my engine.

 

Correct, any fastener that is open into a water jacket or oil source should be sealed. I will note that studs are easier on the threaded holes in the block than bolts and more accurate torque is achieved. If they are new studs, I usually lightly torque and loosen them 3-4 times to smooth the stud and nut threads out before going to final torque. Should be done dry, no oil or ***embly lube.

 

The 3-4 torque sequence I have heard of with rod bolts, and a good idea all around. Is this for the stud to head, as well as the nuts that hold the heads on?

 

I had the same thing happen a decade ago with an 8BA flathead. Drained oil and a ton of anti-freeze followed the oil out the drain plug. Re-torqued the heads, no more problem. Oil stayed water-free.

 

Yes just the hold down nuts, I do clean the block threads with a thread CHASER before installing the studs. I do not recommend a tap because taps are for cutting threads and they will weaken the existing threads by removing material as you run it through, then you risk pulling the stud out of the block as you run up on the final nut torque, thus making a threaded insert repair necessary. Some will probably chime in and say a tap is probably fine. I say there is a correct tool out there for every job.

 

I have also seen where a original head stud has had flutes cut lengthwise for chasers.

 

That is what i did. It worked well. I saw a lot of people saying to not use a tap because the stud threads are rolled, and won't work as well if a tap is run through. So I used a modified stud, and now have another flathead tool.

I would check the torque on the heads, and if that didn't work, pop those heads off and investigate.
I just spent more then I wanted to on a flathead build, and if it were me, purchasing another set of head gaskets so you can be sure there are no bigger issues is worth it.

 

Also if you haven't had luck with retorque. Check surface flatness of block and heads.
If the engine was properly checked before machining. There should be nothing to be concerned about. I sure hope this is the case.

 

From what I understand a man they call Putt or Putman rebuilt the engine and supposedly has a good reputation in the Atlanta/Lavonia,Georgia area. HRP

 

A noted old car guy here had just put a new flatty in his 36 coupe. I saw him at a car event and he was mentioning that it was starting to run warm. I asked him if he had retorqued the heads, I got the deer in the headlights look??
So I asked him to open the hood. I took half the nuts off the heads with my fingers and gave them to him saying these are a bit loose!!!! We did a ratchet and socket light tighten job that got him home where he retorqued the heads and all was well after that.

 

Fuzzy,that is proof positive that even the seasoned hot rod veterans can sometimes overlook a step in the care & maintenance of a fresh Flathead engine. HRP

 

I've never had the heads off a V8 flathead, but this torque/heat/retorque is SOP on an A-Model Flathead, as many times as it takes, as was mentioned. I'd also drain all the anti-freeze out and just run straight water until I was sure i had it sealed up. Anti-freeze is hell on bearings. Lota of people dont like it, but a lot of the old-timers put in a jar of bars-leak to stop the little seeps.Good Luck

 

Thank you my friend,with all the knowledge posted on this thread it may help others benefit from this experience and avoid problems in the future. HRP