quick background... 51 Buick straight 8. so i upgraded my stock radiator to a Walker (thanks Shane T.), this rad is much thicker and requires me to remove the belt driven fan (no biggy). I planned to put a low pro electric fan (motor side), but there is no space for it, rad and pulleys have but a few inches clearance. i put a/c in my car a while back, so in front of the rad there is a huge a/c condensor blocking all the air flow (i think its too big). i know a/c isn't traditional but, my system is very well hidden so there are no visible vents inside, on the same note the compressor is under the alternator (not trad either i know) and the a/c lines will be ran thru the fresh air ducts. So while it may not be totally trad im tring to have modern comforts with trad look. which brings me to my questions: 1. should i gap the a/c condensor from the rad and put the fan inbetween both? pulling from the cond and pushing thru the rad. 2. should i buy a smaller a/c condensor that only blocks 1/2 or 1/3 of the new rad? then put 1 fan for the rad and 1 for the cond (mounting it high in front of the rad). 3. should i relocate the a/c condensor under the car in the frame rails (passenger side) giving it an air gap? put 1 fan on that and 1 fan on the rad. (this would be the most consealed looking requiring long a/c hoses and extra brakets to hold it) well, your input is greatly considered. i will try and post a pic tomorrow of what the set-up looks like. thanks. Yaril
Don't put it under the car. Will work at slow speed but on the highway it won't work. I had 2 fans on mine.
Don't put it under the car. Will work at slow speed but on the highway it won't work. I had 2 fans on mine.
For the A/C to work best you need two things: 1. large condenser, bigger is better, as the condenser needs to remove as much heat as possible for best A/C results. 2. lots of airflow. You need to figure out how to get better airflow, an engine puller is always preferred if possible. What about one of those thin electrics as a puller and a second pusher out front? You need as much as possible to keep your set-up (A/C and engine temp) working best.
thanks for the advise 38chevy454, 1. my condensor is currently almost the same width and hieght as my rad. it cools amazingly well, but i think it may be overkill. considering that it totally blocks the rad. 2. i have one of those thin electric fans that i thought would fit, but the pullies are but inches away front the rad. ill try and squeeze it one more time just in case. im affraid that 1 or 2 fans on the outside pushing air through the condensor wont be sufficient for the radiator. when the a/c is off it may work, but once that condensor is running, im esentially pushing that hot air onto my radiator, right?
use 2 small fans on either side of the pulley, you can score them from a honda in the junkyard, and a pusher in front.
ill look into that. if i remember correctly my pully is right smack in the center of the rad, also that year rad runs vertically. ill check it tonight and snap a pic.
You don't want the condenser more than 1/4" to 1/8" from the core of the radiator as when you're in traffic, your fan will pull air around the condenser rather than through the condenser as air takes the path of least resistance. However, don't sandwich the condenser right up against the radiator core as you will create a blockage for airflow through the two. If you're planning on running an electric fan, make sure it's at least 2500-2700 CFM in order to get the proper airflow for cooling.
let me see if i understand this... distance between condensor and rad should be between 1/4" - 1/8"? just to clarrify, my condensor is behind my front grill, then the rad then the motor. so if my only option is to put the fans between the front grill and the condensor, lets say i stack 2 fans one on top the other on the bottom, will my rad be cooled enough with the a/c running? thanks for the feedback by the way.
It's normally better to have the fan or fans in a puller configuration where they are mounted between the radiator and motor pulling air through. The big disadvantage of putting the fans in front is they will block airflow going down the highway and usually fans are not as effective in a pusher orientation rather than a puller orientation. Do you have space to run an engine driven fan with a shroud? If you cannot fit an electric fan, that would be my recommendation using a steel bladed GM style 6 or 7 bladed fan with a shroud. Blades on the fan should be half out and half in the shroud for best airflow.
below are 2 pics showing what conditions i currently have: some dimensions... condensor 16" wide x 19" tall (finned area) radiator 20" wide x 23" tall (finned area) front grill to condensor: 4.5" condensor: 1.25" thick condensor to radiator: 1.75" (the rad. support bar obligates this dim.) radiator: 3" thick radiator to pulleys: 1.75" perma cool elec fan i have is 2" at frame and 3.25" at motor (doesnt fit between rad. and pulleys) ok, now that ive bored you guys to death with my dimensions, what are my options? i still do not know if 2 fans on the condensor will be sufficient cooling for my rad. with the a/c running? or, should i buy a shorter condensor therefore exposing the bottom half of my rad. for direct fan cooling?
Looks like there is room to move the rad forward, maybe even angle it to clear the hood line and run the fan at the bottom where there is the most room, and a pusher on top in the front? But you ABSOLUTELY need to shore up the distance between the two, 1 3/4" is way too much. Move the rad forward, make a new support rod to go around the front if you insist on it being there. I bet there is enough room for a mech. fan when you're done.
53sled, first of thanks for all your help... the rad has 2 flaps for mounting on either side, i can cut those off and weld 90 degree angles moving the mounting flaps back, therefore moving the rad forward, away from the motor and closer to the condensor. i will have to workout the rad support bar cause i think that helps keeping the front fenders / engine bay sheet metal in place, but if not ill just cut that off. thanks. ill look into that tomorrow night.
With the pictures, I see what one of the big problems is...that condenser is not designed to be mounted sideways. The refrigerant oil is puddling in the bottom elbows and creating a restriction in the system. The high side pressure is going sky high which can be a big cause of the heating situation. You need to change that over to a condenser (preferrably a parallel flow) that will allow the refrigerant and oil to travel horizontally rather than up and down. Your A/C will work way better and may help your heating problem.
ok deuce4life, that makes sense to me but then again i dont know much about a/c systems. so what size condensor would you recommend? i would think that a 20" wide x 10" tall would be suffice, but again i dont know a/c. current size: condensor 16" wide x 19" tall (finned area) radiator 20" wide x 23" tall (finned area) thanks.
Vintage Air offers a condenser (PN # 03769-VUX) that's 17" tall x 19" wide and .75" thick. It's a parallel flow condenser which means that the tubes are made of extruded aluminum and are ovaled and chambered to allow the refrigerant to have more contact with the tube. This allows for more heat dissapation which translates to more efficiency. With being .75" thick, it will allow for alot more airflow than the 1.5" thick condenser you have right now.
ok, i know its been a while sence this post, but i finally got it done! between school and work and other side projects i finally wrapped it up. welded 2x2 L brakets to the new Walker rad, drilled it to match the mounting holes on the rad support, checked for hood clearance first. Flipped the top support bar to the motor side. Cut the lower splash pan for the rad to slip thru and made mounting tabs to support the weight of the condensor. zipped the permacool fan and condensor to the rad, made sure the condensor to rad had 1/4". spaced out the drier cause it hit the rad. i think it came out really clean. oh, and i polished the brass top on the rad now i need to buy rad hoses, looking for best i can get. i need about 12" for the top and 24" for the bottom. i head of flexable universal type hoses but would like some input and possibly where to buy it. now some pics...
alright, well i found some rad hoses at autozone that should work. ill cut them and fit them tomorrow. next question is... what radiator cap should i use? im asking pounds. not very familier with this. All i know is that i want a polished one to match my walker. motor is stock, rad is a 4 core. thanks. Yaril
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