O/T Add me to the list of unemployed.

That was one of the reasons Henry Ford made two things important in his business plan. One is to pay a wage that will allow the people working for him to afford his cars. The other was to maintain control of as many operations in his purview that could be done. He found outsourcing to spotty at best. His own QC was much tougher, becuase a guy on the line may just come over and punch you in the nose for making a poorly designed part. Instant feedback. Yes, he had some personal flaws, as we all do, but he had a strong sense of community and getting the most out of people, materials, and most importantly time, (the one resource that is never reclaimed once gone) so they could succeed.

Logistically it is the most sensible to keep a supply line as short as posssible, as you said, local jobs, local economies, local company success. Its a cycle. Sadly, it is something our world competition is figuring out before we did. They are building plants here to save money because of the volitility of shipping costs.

 

Doc, Guy here has stables and needs a live in caretaker to feed horses etc. You would live in a furnished apartment above the barn that is nice. You could do your own thing out of one of the out buildings. This is not a job offer just labor for free board deal. As mentioned in my PM to you that [you did not respond to] I am good for 50. twards your plane ticket. PM me if interested, i will give you the guys contact info.

 

Funny, I was just thinking about you when I left the local gun show here in town ! Just as I predicted the ammo is piled up to the rafters and selling like hotcakes. The re-loads were moving like I had never seen before. ONLY IN AMERICA

 

OK I have shot this down a number of time already on different boards.
65 million taxpayers, 40 million earn less that $95 k
40,000,000 times $1,000 , equals 40 billion dollars, times $10,000 equals $400.000,000,000 dollars.

Now where do you think that money will come from?

The other 25 million taxpayers.

Each one of those tax payers will have to pay another $16,000 in taxes, which , of course , will move some of them into the lower tax rates, which will mean that the amount paid out will increase, the number who can pay will decrease, the amount they have to pay will increase, and it all repeats again.

And finally the US Government is the only person making over $99 thousand dollars and they have to support everyone in the country.

You want that , keep voting for more money to be paid to you by the government.

And , it gets even worse when you consider all adults where you have 200 million adults and the payoff at $1,000 is $200,000,000,000 dollars.
And the government will eventually have to get it all back from you through taxes.

You already got a $600 payment and it did absolutely no good for the economy!


traderjack

 

If the government spents 20 billion dollars to put up a space telescope, there is a little secret there!
There is no money up there with the space telescope, It is all in the hand of the companies that built it and employed the workers.
When a $1,000 missile is fired in Iraq, not one dollar is on that missile

As to borrowing the money, yep, that is done, and we have to repay the loans. but if we send a billion dollars over to China, what can they do with those dollars which are only backed by and paid for by the US Govt. It has to come back here in some form, or another!

Best thing to do is put a very high tariff on imported goods, possibly making the companies come back to the USA to produce.

Hope it works out that way!

traderjack

 

29Nash,

I agree somewhat with what you have said. There need to be some sizeable adjustments in attitude toward expectations. I think we need tobe careful though about isolationism. Every major world conflict in the last 100 years has been enabled by standing by while very bad influences grew in the world. It is all of our business to hold leaders accountable for how they perform because they are in trade with us worldwide. "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing..." I know it doesn't seem like we should still be doing thiis, but it seems that warriors are still needed.

As for being self sufficient, where do you kive? If the rug were yanked out from under your family, can all of your people survive? If there is a question to be answered it will be how can we sustain ourselves in an isolationistic fashion when all of our wealth and the ability to lead the world by good example is gone. I don't really want to go back to the two room shack with an outhouse and a hand pump cistern I was born in, but it seems thats what you are saying. I don't agree. I fought every obstacle that came my way on the high road, leading by example, from the front, and developed many people into very sharp swords ready for battle in the most extreme conditions to succeed in business and in life. I gave up my health and well being so the younger generations might have something left worth fighting for, and nearly my life many times just to do what is right because it is the right thing to do. Don't you look down your nose at me for having to receive assistance to live my daily life. I fought so you could get rich. You can shove your self righteous lack of empathy where the sun don't shine.

People don't fail on their own, they fail to be properly lead. Where have you been all this time? Have you been leading? Setting a moral example? Or just talking condescending bullshit like I have been reading on hereeverywhere you seem to weigh in. Now don't go away mad, just go away. We have people who are losing their homes, and seeing their families fall apart. Armchair quarterbacking is not needed. Its time for decency to kick in instead of judgement. We will get through this, but not with folks like you blaming the people who have just been trying to work for a living. The "paper rich" who earned money on our backs selling our country out from under us are largely responsible. So hows your stock portfolio doing? My 401K and pension got absorbed in a Chapter 7. 35 years of work and just what I have around is all I have to show for it. I'm a man not a victimand if you see it otherwiseI don't know how to explain it in any smaller words so you understand it.

It is best to offer pragmatic solutions tothese specific problems, and leave politics out of it. It is not the time or place.

 

Thank you for your clarifications. Paradoxocally, your responses have confirmed every point I made. I am not or ever was rich either. I'm not an elitist or a communist either. I just worked hard all my life and tried to do the right thing by everyone. I guess I didn'tlook out for #1 enough. My reading comprehension might be lacking(how would I know?) , but I have received I percieve as a negative tone through many of your posts. We don't have to have s'mores and sing kumbaya, but go easy on these guys they just got the shit kicked out of them and there is little end in sight.

I wish you well in your superiority of thought, its a great world for you to live in if it makes you happy. Things are simpler for me I guess. I have had three good careers shot out from under me by "money man strategy" bankruptcy and outsourcing. We were competing fine, it just was never a level playing field. I can survive in places most folks will never see, but I don't expect the rest of the world to do that. My health, well. That wasn't my choice believe me. Working is a whole lot more fun.

And good day to you also.

 

Hey 29nash,

If you're talking about my previous post about $10.00 an hour not being enough look at what I wrote after that.
When everything else around you has stayed the same in price but the pay has went down how do you pay for daycare(which you obviously need to have for your kids so you can go to work)AND have money left over to pay for food.
I'd love to work somewhere and break even but after paying the bills I'm paying in. My wife and I don't try to keep up w/ the Jones'. We don't have car payments, don't live in a big house(we're in a 2 bedroom), no flat panel TV's etc. Hell, she evens cuts the kids and my hair to save a few (doesn't look to bad when it's done)
If we don't have the cash for it we DON'T buy it!
I see more and more people nowadays putting under $10.00 items/total sales on their credit cards. That to me is sad and scary.

Thanks Buddy!

 

First off let me say I feel for all you guys that are out of work, especially you younger guys with families to feed. But to me this has been ruined by all the political scientists and there soap boxes. I wish we could limit this discussion to helping those HAMBers who need it.

 

Well put!

That being said,anyone looking for a service advisor or service manager in the ATX w/ a proven customer service and sales record?

 

And thats why I think that type of analysis is uncalled for in this context. Its not a political problem, it people's lives here coming apart. And the most forthcoming and honest who have lived within their means will be the ones taking it on the chin. Again.

My services as an advisor to help stand out as a candidate still stands to any taker. My offer to Doc to help get to the states still stands. These are the kind of things each of us can contribute. We all have things we are good at. Thats where the rubber meets the road.

 

Yep, it's bad, and there isn't any quick fix. Thank the liberal agenda for leading us down this path of eliteism.

In spite of them, It's obvious that you are on top of things, and having a happy life to boot! Keep on keepin' on!

 

This goes contrary to the way I used to think, but it now is in my thoughts every day:

All my life I had the thought that older people must think to themselves:
"I wish I was younger. I wish I could start over".

This seems like it should be a natural thing for people who are aging to think this way. After all, who would relish the fact that they are getting older and are facing the twilight of their lives?

My thoughts over the last several years (I'm 58) are a surprise to me as, now, I am grateful that I am the age that I am. I wouldn't want to be 20 years old again, at least not today in 2009.

Born in 1950, I was blessed to grow up in an United States that was in the prime of it's history. World respected, people working in decent jobs and producing cars, appliances, machinery, and highways. In my neighborhood next to Pasadena, CA., we had school teachers, the manager of the local lumber yard. a Union Oil rep, and my Dad who was a local policeman.
We had a 900 sq. ft. house for the four of us and couldn't have been happier.
No kid would ever cuss in front of an adult, or disrespected a policeman or a teacher. You followed the laws and the rules of the household or you met the a quick and sometimes painful reminder that you were a kid and not in charge of the world. In high school we couldn't have beards, moustaches, wear our shirt-tails out or wear t-shirts with printing on them and we had to have hair a certain length or you were sent home until you did.
In the 70's kids were able to pretty much do as they please, talk back to their parents and get away with crap at school that we would never dream of...and it just got worse than that over time.
So by the late 70's and 80's, moms across the country were having to work, everyone started locking their front doors and kids were left on their own after school.
In 1973, I remember getting an application for a BankAmericard. What the hell was that? A card that you could use to buy stuff (that you don't need) and, well, you can pay for it in payments!!! Holy Crap! How cool is that?
And for many, the rapid slide into debt for millions of folks had begun.

I bought a new Dodge van in 1974 and while my friends traded in their cars every few years, I drove the crap out of my old van for 20 years replacing the engine and trans as needed. I didn't like it, but it was mine, and paid for.
I bought a house in 1974, never refinaced it, did repairs myself and tried the best I could to keep it well maintained.

My point is, that when I graduated from high school in 1968, I always knew that I would buy a house and have a career.
Now, kids getting out of school have almost no hope of having a job for one or two companies thoughout their lifetime, no promise that they will be able to buy a house and getting in debt is now expected rather than something to be avoided.
We live in a world now where everyone has to have all the new gizmos and whatever is cool to have. So, it all goes on a credit card or up until recently, folks were refinancing their house to get cash to buy unneccessary things like vacations, boats, toys, toys, toys...

Our Country has changed along with our culture and I, for one, am glad I'm 58.
I saw the greatness of America in the 50's and 60's and enjoyed living with those who embraced dignity, knowing the difference between right and wrong, doing what is right for yourself, your family and your Nation.
No, I wouldn't change a thing.

All the best to you guys and ladies who are having a tough time. Hang tough and together with those who a dear to you. Get out of debt...so how, some way. Also, be well...take care of yourself. Times are tough. Being in poor health is an absolute hell on earth...
sorry, got a little long winded

 

You are so right Mazooma1!
My parents grew up in the 40's and 50's.They were grateful for what they had, not pissed about what they didn't have.
It wasn't about outdoing your neighbor like it is nowadays.It was about helping your neighbor.People don't even know their neighbors anymore.
I was raised with "old school" values and that's the same way I raise my kids.Unfortunately that goes out the window when they are around other kids as those kids just don't have any respect.
It's kind of funny when people ask my kids what they watch for TV shows and they say Leave It To Beaver or The Munsters.
I try to keep my kids away from all that garbage that is on TV these days.
Things have changed alot for us recently(no job,down to one car) but I'm still grateful for what I have-FAMILY. In the end that's all that matters.

 

Lets get this back on track. Dean lost his job, sorry to hear the news Dean. From knowing you online here for many years I am sure you will find something.

You did hint at Waterloo cutting jobs a while back in another thread so the possibility was in the back of your mind. So was it really that big of a surprise? Like I said, from what I know, you will land on your feet.

 

I am thankful to the moderators for allowing us to go through this. For dean and everyone. We have some great advice offers, some job listings, some examples to compare ours to. Its what gets it done.

Something I have to share. I started out at the main part of my life married at 20 (though I had done farm work since I was big enough to carry a bucket and smart enough to not get eaten by the sow) with a beautiful wife and 2 babies, just a rawboned farm kid throwing groceries, produce, and meat around 16 hrs a day onto trucks. My happiest days were the ones I came home tiredest in the middle of the night when I got off work and just watched them all sleep for a minute before I drifted off.

This alone is my biggest satisfaction in life, that core of knowing I gave it my all, and what I gave it for. Those two things are a powerful motivator. God Bless you all, and I pray that our future generations will be as blessed with that love of accomplishment and responsibility as I was as it was brought to me from the example set by just watching regular people going about their lives. I have read alot of books, and had some school, ran more than one big operation responsible for the future of alot of families. But that part at age 20 on was my best education. And, I do pray they are some pieces to glue back together for the people now who are having to adjust and continue the thing we call learning by generation. If we lose that, that is the biggest loss of all.

 

Well stated, Mazooma1!
You have reminded me that there is hope.
Mazooma1, hearing about how you did it might teach somebody that hasn't had the good fortune to have a quality life experience, that don't know which way to turn. I hope somebody profits from that. Our upbringing and life experience are what gets us through that.

This is an Unemployment experience thread and the more the unemployed have consider, the better. Dissing us for stating our position is a ploy by those that don't want to hear about it. Feel free to speak your mind. Yes, we need to get back to our hot-rodsI so I will quit beating this dead horse. We all know what boat we are in. Politicians will tell you that nobody saw this coming.
A lot of people saw it coming. The killer is that when things were good, people always steered away from talking about politics. The didn’t have time for it. Now, when the worm has turned, they had better start talking Politics. If they don’t there will never be any turning back.

Our lovely old cars will be confiscated and crushed. Just as soon as the “new team” , as Coldwar calls them, takes power, all of the environmental laws that President Bush postponed/circumvented,/ etc. will be put back into law, to make it harder for us Hot Rodders to survive.
Stockpiled coal will be put in mothballs to stand as monuments, instead of usable fuel, bringing up the price of gasoline and diesel.

The salt flats speed events will be shut down, for ‘greenie’ utopia. The only thing that saving energy will accomplish is it will raise the cost of living. NASCAR will not survive as it was a year ago.

Races will be more like demolition derbys than performance contests. We shouldn't be dragged down to their level, the people that don't want to talk "politics", because they don't understand our hobby is on the line and don't want to hear about it.

Wake up gentlemen, our hobby is on the line.

 

to mazomma.....im 61 and agree with you 100%.................

 

I wish the best of luck to all those who have lost their jobs. I was laid off last June but was rehired just last week by the same company that had laid me off in the first place. Finding a job aint no joke these days, even the shitty ones. The struggle wont last forever though....good luck!!

 

Mazooma1 you are right on again. You truly inspire me with some of the things you post, I can see how you made it to being where you have been and where you are. I used to say to people that I wish I had grown up in an earlier time and they would look at me perplexed. I can't stand most of my generation (18-28) and the thought process that goes on with it at times. Its like a unconscious notion that its cool to have children out of wed-lock and run up a massive personal debt before even out of your teens. The give me give me impulse is a bad disease people have. I have never had a credit card and probably won't. I have a bank card with credit card abilities but those stop when the funds run out of my checking. "Don't spend what you don't have!" Has been my mindset from an early age. Now I understand some can not live by this do to things beyond their control, but there is always a way out. You just have to make it happen. Re-evaluate the needs, forget the wants or at least put them off till you have cash in hand plus money to live on. Whats the basics you need? Family, food, shelter, then everything else. Thats how I pay my bills and the same with the rest of my extended family.

When I was growing up my father made me work for what I wanted, not just hand it to me. He was an old man when I was born 44. He had a father who made him work his ass off for what he wanted and he passed that on to me. My pops always told me to live within my means, he would say, "Now how long do you have to save in order to buy that? Then save it kid. Then buy it. But make sure you have half of what you spent still saved." My pops was never really set until later on in life and he is worn out now from working his ass off. But he is happy he lived on his own terms not having to deal with owing others by putting the "NEEDS" first over the "WANTS". Thanks again Mazooma1 for your encouraging posts.-Weeks

 

I dunno Nash, you may be right. But I started out earning under Nixon/FordCarter/Reagan/Bush/Clinton/Bush and now Obama. We had 20% interest on mortgages when I got married and now I'm standing on 6%. The $30K house over 30 years would cost more back then (even with 20% down and paying the closing costs)than my $105K house I have now (with 5% down and paying all of my closing costs)to pay off. I put my wife through college and got the kids most of the way before my health finally gave out. We been going into ice ages and now its global warming. If theres a lesson I've learned through the years is that gloom and doom creates urgency for a change. But polititions are pretty much the same regardless of stripe and they will use gloom and doom as a tool to manipulate people. Ladybird Johnson crushed alot of cool cars in the '60's, if we let that happen we do have a historical precedent, thus no excuse.

I didn't learn to wrench as a hobby, I did it to keep dad's cars and trucks on the road and tractors in the field, and my wife and kids a safe and reliable ride to town. The hobby came when I had the money to spend, and went when I didn't. No politition stopped me, my own sense of priorities did. No money, no new stuff for the hot rod. I reused things, made things. Now there's new idea. There will always be hot rods because we will adapt. Maybe not HAMB friendly, but I had a '67 F100 I bought from dad with a dead 240 motor that I drug home right after we got married and transplanted an FE into it built from used parts that would stomp the guts out of most of the "hot rods" and any of the new cars around because I used what I had and made the best of it. No politition in the historical period I was in ever got ahold of that one. Because they couldn't. If it had been a '94 F150 like my son has, it would be no different. They can't take your will to make something run harder, drive better, and be safer as long as any automobile exists. I souped up my bicycles as a kid by welding longer cranks for the pedals on,taking gears out of rims and putting them in other ones. Its in you or its not. Polititions from Nixon to Bush haven't put a dent in it, why should anyone be afraid now? We still run this country as long as we have the will.

No more politics or talking about me. I am sick and I can't change it. This is about the guys who need to adjust, and I will offer what I have from interviewing and choosing people. Be clean cut and properly dressed for the interview, stand tall, look people in the eye, have a firm handshake, and give deliberate thought out answers with your eyes on the person you are talking to. Don't stare, but be direct. If you don't know say so, but always emphasize your willingness to learn. Be honest, be tactful. You won't fail. If you can't pass a drug test, get that monkey off your back. Lean, sharp and clean is what will get you the job.

 

Yes, it's a political problem, and like just about every other political problem, it's NOT going to be solved by one side getting their way...it'll be solved by both sides working together, and ending up some where in the middle. Please leave the partisan stuff out of it. There's enough blame to go around, we all know it, doesn't need to be said again.

 

Well said.

 

Subscribing to this thread. I'm one of the few left where I work. Topic of discussion on our breaks is always on what's happening around us. One coworker talked about back in the early 70's one couldn't get a mortgage if he/she had a car payment. Boy how times have changed.

 

I have only been in debt by choice once, when I joined the Army I took out a loan for a motorbike, I paid that off in less than a third of the time required, never had a credit card and never will.
I am in debt now because of VA although that is in the courts as there is no proof that I owe them anything, as I haven't received a payment from them in years. I have payed them back once before for an overpayment and now I owe on all my bills and rent. My bills may only be a couple of thousand dollars but they may as well be millions right now for my ability to pay it off.
I was proud that I could pay for everything I wanted, I worked hard for it.
But now I am a victim and I cant deny that. With a broken body, limited ability to work and an uncaring government where to go now?
My father was killed in Viet Nam, My grandfathers on both sides served, my uncles served pretty much everyone my family knew served. So I did too I guess it was an inevitability. Had I not been injured in the line of service I would still happily be serving my country until I too were killed or I made it to retirement.
Now your all wondering what the hell this has to do with anything?
Well I refer to 29nash's comments in green....

What does it have to do with you? The very freedom you enjoy was won not only at the hands of your servicemen but also us, every conflict I fought in was in support of the US. Me being injured, my mates being killed were for your benefit.

Yes, to me you are rich.
Just what part of 'Totally and Permanently Incapacitated' do you not understand? I want to work, I am one of those people who identify themselves through their work. In my mind I am still a Special Forces soldier, physically Im 92 years old at 36!
I served and almost payed the supreme sacrifice.
Its upsetting to come on here and find that people like you dont appreciate what we younger generations have sacrificad for you. Its upsetting to be called a 'whiner' and lazy.
I was told that in the event that I was incapacitated that the government and country I served would look after me.
They did for a while, but then a pension that I was supposed to get until age 65 was taken off me. Why? Good question, no one has an answer.
I work when I can but there just isn't a lot I can do. I wish I could pick fruit, sweep gutters, mow lawns but I cant.
Any you are telling me that its my fault, that I am a complainer and I expect a hand out?
No, I expect what I signed my life away for.
That same thing that was taken from me.
I had substantial savings, and assets, they are not going to save you when your world comes crashing down. Physical items are not as valuable anymore. Savings are great, but they don't replace themselves.
My parents were in trouble financially just before I was injured, I lent them 24 thousand dollars from my savings. Then this happened, how do I replace the money when they refuse to give me a cent now they are back on their feet?

So Mr 29nash fuck you, seriously. Your life and times, in a different time has blinded you to current reality. You can not account for everyones circumstances with your narrow view.
Its time to wake up, stop watching the TV an being an arm chair politician and find out what is really happening in society.

 

This is beautiful. Alot of us have children that will struggle just to have the small things that we have enjoyed.

Personally, I do not see things getting better any time soon.

God help us all.

Mazzoma1 you are an inspiration. ( even though you are a valley dude)

Thank you.

 

San Gabriel Valley...much different than "the Valley"...

 

You are a man of great words Mazooma.........................................and photos.

 

I don't think anyone will argue with that, some of those pics and gifs have had about to split my sides. If set them to the big screen they are unreal. The "Hit" was the best one. I enjoy your posts too RS.

Bill